The most incredible german "victory"?

[pzrmeyer2]

Torqi writes:

So what you got is only the same dumb Nazi propaganda that ignores the fact that all of these areas were originally settled by Poles, part of Polish state and in fact were inhabited by Poles.
As to population:
http://raven.cc.ku.edu/~eceurope/hist55 ... 11pic2.jpg

you know, I was actually thinking of acknowledgeing you on Posen. However, I find it interesting that you leave out from your own source the cities of Thorn 55% German in 1910, Graudenz, 70%, Bromberg 68.4% and others. Are they Polish too? And I see now you confine your arguement to West Preussen/Warthegau/Oberschlesien, areas that I agree had mixed history. How 'bout Stettin, Breslau, Konigsberg, Danzig? A few huts built a thousand years ago isn't a strong case for me. What infrastructure was built in 1400? Lets focus on modern times say, after 1700 or 1800. Did the Poles have the sewer systems built? how about paved roads? how about the factories and the houses and the city centers and the suburbs? all Polish from 900 AD? Face it: rapid growth in population and built up areas occurred during German control.
I don't expect you to admit any of this of course, given your anti-German bias and your inferiority complex.

[pzrmeyer2]

Phylo writes:

PM - the Nazi Party and the W-SS DID exactly that - on May 8th 1945 they went into captivity, for denazification courts or war crimes trials. Incredibly peacefully on the whole. Its still noted even today that the Occupying Powers found it extremely difficult to find ANY of the hundreds of thousands if not millions of Party members willing to stand up and admit it. So much for beliefs. I've just had a programm rolling in the background on the TV about the Werewolves - and what would strike me is that with MANY months of preparation available, huge amounts of smallarms and munitions available....that there was actually so COMPARATIVELY little resistance activity after the armistice.

the Werewolves - and what would strike me is that with MANY months of preparation available, huge amounts of smallarms and munitions available....that there was actually so COMPARATIVELY little resistance activity after the armistice

THAT is hardly a nation of true believers standing up and fighting to the death for their beliefs.....

you can't be serious. you are talking with hindsight about the Germans in May 45, when as Sid demonstrated, between July 44 and then they lost about half of their total casualties, their cities were pulverized, the east was occupied and defiled by the Soviets, and the camps were discovered. No tto mention the huge numbers of Allied and Red troops on the ground. I think by that time even the staunchest NAzi realized that resistance was futile. Now, turn it back to July 44. The Allies were still around Normandy, the Soviets still east of Warsaw and Romania. Hard to tell, the defeat was an ABSOLUTE certainty. There was still beleif on "wonder weapons" and sizeable fuel fields and weaponry, along with millions of experienced troops still alive.

Uncle Joe was suddenly faced with a Germany that accepted unconditional surrender on all fronts a LONG time before he reached the finishing line on the Elbe that was envisioned as far back as Yalta

You are really stretching it to beleive that the plotters would have submiited to unconditional surrender, especially knowing that meant the Russians too. A truce, maybe....

Also, it is doubtful to me that they would not have learned (and most proably already knew) the post war plans of dismemberment and partition and would have accepted that as part of peace. I don't think they'd have given up their Junker properties and homesteads east of the Oder easily. Perhaps, a withdrawal to the Westwall and Gothic line, and continued fighting in the east and southeast....

[pzrmeyer2]

Here a map:
http://www.halgal.com/graphics/PUR/polishpop.jpg
Clearly shows that area of Poznan and Upper Silesia had Polish majority

yeah, look at your map Torqi. I don't see much yellow areas in Stettin and most of Pommern, Danzig, Breslau an most of Schlesien or OstPreussen. Seems like you guys weren't there and didn't need them, given your own admission about the small Polish population as compared to Germany. Can the Germans get 'em back now?

[Laurent Daniel]

Go trolling elsewhere Torqi!

Why "trolling"?
Torquez is bringing us some interesting figures, with some sources, that look to support his opinion. If you disagree, do like him, bring some more information.
OK, his way to systematically treat like a "Nazi" whomsoever is not agreeing is slightly disturbing but that's a side effect, not the core of his post.

[Helmut Von Moltke]

OK, his way to systematically treat like a "Nazi" whomsoever is not agreeing is slightly disturbing but that's a side effect, not the core of his post.

and plus with all his boring politicaly correct talk about how evil Germany was, how Germany should continue paying, and other things like that. And I'm not sure discussing German and Polish land controls dating back to the middle ages, etc is entirely relevant to WWII and Germany, many threads by Torquez suddenly go out of control.

[Laurent Daniel]

Hi Helmut,

many threads by Torquez suddenly go out of control.

That the backside of being here with a cause to defend. Several members here are having a cause and are in this forum to defend it. And, sometimes, they don't have the required philosophy, coolness, etc, and the thread becomes flaming.
By the way, I am also culprit of few flaming threads defending my country... so, beside suggesting to Torquez, to myself and to some other "hot" members to try to argue positively and calmly, I won't criticize.

[John W. Howard]

Hello Gents:
This thread has gone astray. I am locking it.