Occupation of the Croatian Islands

German campaigns and battles 1919-1945.

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Doug Batson
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Occupation of the Croatian Islands

Post by Doug Batson » Sun May 18, 2003 2:51 pm

Hi,

I was interested in finding out what units (German, Croatian, Italian, etc) occupied the following islands. If they were in fact occupied:

The Brijuni islands (also known as Brioni Islands)
Cres & Losinj islands
Krk
Rab
Pag
The Kornati islands
Brac
Hvar
Vis
Korcula
Mljet
Kolocep, Lopud & Sipan (The Elafit islands)

And what fate was of the occupation forces.

Thanks,

Doug Batson

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Kocjo
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Post by Kocjo » Sun May 18, 2003 9:42 pm

This is an old thread on Vis island:
http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4989.

Regards,
Kocjo
Slovenija gre naprej!

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KlemenL
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Post by KlemenL » Mon May 19, 2003 5:54 am

Dugi otok: Annexed by Italians in April 1941. The German attempted to land on the island several times, the last time on the 31.V.1944 on its southern part, but when a partisan detachment prevented them to occupy the northern half, they abandon it on the same day. The island was vital for its communications lines with the island of Vis, already mentioned by Kocjo.

Brac Island: Took by the 12th Croatian Partisan Brigade in September 1943. In October 1943 a small detachment of Ustasha tried to land at Milna, but was repulsed. At the beginning of October 1943, the Germans landed and fortified some sectors on the island near Supetar, Nerezisce and Sumarte. The island's defence included 2nd and 3rd Battalion of the 738th Infantry Regiment of the 117th Division, reinforced by two artillery batteries, total some 1,800 troops. The island was taken on 31.V-5.VI.1944 by the 26th Yugoslav Partisan Division (3,500 men minus two battalions), reinforced by some elements of the British Commando with three artillery batteries (75mm and 88mm) and a company of American Rangers, total 500 men.

Solta Island: Solta island was occupied by three companies of the 892nd Infantry Regiment of the 264th German Infantry Division. The German abandoned the island on 10.V.1944, after the 12nd Dalmatian Brigade of the 26th Division NOVJ landed on the island.

In April 1945, the German garrisons on the islands of Krk, Cres and Losinj numbered circa 2,200 troops with 77 artillery pieces. The islands were taken on 21-22 April 1945 by the units of the 9th Istrian Partisan Division and the Kvarner Naval Infantry Detachment.

Lp,

Klemen
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Enrico Cernuschi
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Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Mon May 19, 2003 9:20 am

My Godness, what a mess!
Brioni (BriJuni), Cherso (Cres) and Lussino (Losini) were not occupied in April 1941 but were Italian Islands since 1918.
I know that now there will be someone claiming this was a crime against the Slav or Yougoslavian or Croat, or Slovene, Gypsy or some other East people right but these are the facts and stop.
Bye EC

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Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Mon May 19, 2003 9:29 am

Just a further detail. The Axis garrison of Cherso and Lussino is. was formed mainly by Italians of the X MAS. They repulsed at Lussinpiccolo a British landing on 3 Dec. 1944 damaging the British destroyer HMS Wilton, hit by a 152 mm shell (6'') of the Monte Asino battery. After the new 22 Apr. 1945 landing, supported by the Royal Navy, of the partisans the defenders, Italian and German, were all slaughtered. No surviviors. the doom of most of the island inhabitants was not better, only a bit longer. The islands were then mostly repopoulated by fellows coming from the interior of Yugoslavia, like Macedonia ect.
An ugly war indeed, but a democratic one. EC

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Post by KlemenL » Mon May 19, 2003 11:38 am

Brioni (BriJuni), Cherso (Cres) and Lussino (Losini) were not occupied in April 1941 but were Italian Islands since 1918.
I think the question was referring to WHICH Italian units did occupy these islands in April 1941 or to put it in another way whichiItalian units were STATIONED on these islands in 1941?
I know that now there will be someone claiming this was a crime against the Slav or Yougoslavian or Croat, or Slovene, Gypsy or some other East people right but these are the facts and stop.
I think we all know how have the "Makaronenfresser" got these islands, by stabbing their yesterday ally, Austro-Hungary, in the back. Again. :wink:
the doom of most of the island inhabitants was not better, only a bit longer.
And yet remarkably many survived.
The islands were then mostly repopoulated by fellows coming from the interior of Yugoslavia, like Macedonia ect.
Weren't you doing the same by settling hords of Sardinians, Sicilians and people from Southern Italy to Istria and the Littoral to improve (or better to say to raise) the Italian population in these areas? :wink:

Lp,

Klemen

p.s.
Any details about Losinj attack? Have been there about eight years ago. Saw no Macedonians. Care to explain this Macedonia re-settlement?
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Jason Pipes
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Post by Jason Pipes » Mon May 19, 2003 12:30 pm

Just a warning, keep the political flames out of this discussion. The original poster had an excellent question and one that I am also deeply interested in. What Axis units were stationed on or occupied the various Croatian islands during the war?

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Lupo Solitario
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Post by Lupo Solitario » Mon May 19, 2003 12:37 pm

Sincerly Jason, Brioni are so little and without any military value that I wonder if they had some population during WWII...not to tell about a garrison!
Lusini hosted a X MAS training center in last years of war but I got no infos about 1941

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Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Mon May 19, 2003 12:56 pm

Ok Jason,
it's right for me.
The Yugoslavian islands of Dalmazia were occupied on Apr. 1941 by a token force of Italian little ships, mostly Torpediniere (little destroyers) and sailors coming form the "Compagnie da sbarco" of the ships. It was an improvised operation led by Adm. Oscar di Giamberardino, Commander of the Northern Adriatic (Venice). The Reggimento San Marco (the Regia Marina marines) was active only during the last days of the campaign, which lasted less than two weeks. The landing were unopposed and losses were minimal (accidents, no fighting).
It's possible to find some details in : Oscar di Giamberardino, 1922-1945, La politca bellica nella tragedia nazionale, ed. Polin, Roma, 1945, and in Adm. Vittorio Tur, Plancia ammiraglio, Vol. III, ed. Canesi, Roma, 1959. Ther's too: Le fanterie di marina italiane, ed. Ufficio Storico Marina Militare, Roma, 1988.
During the war, until the Italian armistice, the Adriatic coast was defended by companies and squadroni of older troops of the reserve not put under the (quite administrative and not tactical) command of a Divisione Costiera. It was a very secondary theatre where the danger of an invasion was minimal. It was, however, a favourite land for agents and commandos. At least three British parties landed there (Italian side of the ASdriatic, in Romagna) in 1943 by submarine. One of these team had, in May 1943, according the common version know among the people, the purpose to kill the Duce, who had his residence (la Rocca delle Caminate) and the habit to relax sometimes with an holiday on the sand, at Riccione, not far from there.

And now a little note for Klemen, my love: it's possible that there were Italian immigrants in Istria among the two world wars (it's the first time I heard such but everything is possible and when you do not quote numbers EVERYTHING is possible) but they didn't occupied someone other houses killing in quite a barbaric way (after the war, of course, as before it was too much dangerous) the owners plundering private and public goods too. The historical difference is the same you may find between a murderer and a victim. That's all. Bye EC :wink:

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Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Mon May 19, 2003 1:01 pm

Ciao Lupo,
Brioni had no military value but was famous for her marvellous hotels and villas. A VIP residence it become, after the war, the personal buen retiro of Tito who presented the Duke of Aosta estate to his enthusiastic British press agent William Deakin (Nora Beloff, Tito's Flawed Legacy,ed. Victor Gollancz Ltd, London). Who said that crime do not pay? Bye EC

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Post by Lupo Solitario » Mon May 19, 2003 1:50 pm

I had been there (Brioni) four years ago and it seemed me a real kitch place. For some mysterious reason, it looks like a copy of Margherita Gardens here in Bologna. Me and two friends of mine spent an entire afternoon laughing without interruption, everything seemed funny. We still remember it as one of the most funny moment of our recent lives

(An evident anti-italian discrimination: while all the other hostess were topmodel-like gals - one seemed the twin of Natasha Stefanenko - the italian group one were....hmmm... of very low level, we can say :D 8) :wink: )

(sorry, I couldn't resist to place this little personal note...)

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Post by KlemenL » Mon May 19, 2003 3:48 pm

Just a warning, keep the political flames out of this discussion.
Sorry, Jason but by calling insults to other people you certainly won't get any admiration nor the actual replies as a matter in fact. I have kindly explained this to Enrico in one of my earlier messages, but he seems he simply ignored that. Now either we will "play fair" here on a mutual respect or I am off this board. Es ist mir egal.

LINK:
Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:59 am Post subject: fascism
http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopi ... ght=#23725
Sincerly Jason, Brioni are so little and without any military value that I wonder if they had some population during WWII...not to tell about a garrison!
Actually Lupo, the Island of Brioni have had some sort of strategical value in the past before 1918 that is (and probably also during 1918-1945), when the Austrians had built some fortresses and installed coastal artillery to protect the naval base in Pula Bay. I believe the Italians inherited these forts, but don't know if they were still active in 1940a when the war has started. In any case the islands itself were not exactly entirely without any living souls.
Lusini hosted a X MAS training center in last years of war but I got no infos about 1941
One Lussaner also won the Medaglie D'Oro during WWII in the Regia Marina.
One of these team had, in May 1943, according the common version know among the people, the purpose to kill the Duce, who had his residence (la Rocca delle Caminate) and the habit to relax sometimes with an holiday on the sand, at Riccione, not far from there.
:?: :?: OK, now was the mission of that group of British commandos to eliminate Mussolini or is this just another gossip?
And now a little note for Klemen, my love: it's possible that there were Italian immigrants in Istria among the two world wars (it's the first time I heard such but everything is possible and when you do not quote numbers EVERYTHING is possible)
As I told you before your knowledge of the national composition of the Istria and Dalmatia seems to me to be seriously hampered by a serious lack of knowledge.
but they didn't occupied someone other houses killing in quite a barbaric way (after the war, of course, as before it was too much dangerous) the owners plundering private and public goods too.
OK, let me see if I got this right. First you say YOU DON'T KNOW of any Italian settlers from Central and Southern Italy being re-settled to Dalmatia and Istria but in the same breath you are claiming you're absolutely certain that THEY (who? The settlers that settled in Istria, but still don't know whether they did or not?? :!: :?: ) did not kill or financially destroyed the Slovene or Croatian natives, thus forcing them to emmigration, confiscating their land and eventually selling it to the Italian settlers??? How are you so sure about this if you don't even know anything about Italian emmigration waves to Istria and Dalmatia in 1930s and 1940s is really beyond me. Now either you're making fools from other respective members of this forum, either your're not serious here and have based your knowledge on one side only or you simply don't know what are you talking about.
killing in quite a barbaric way
Your should really get rid of of these stereotypes of "everything what comes east of isonzo" being a barbaric country, where killings and kidnappings are a daily routine. In reality very few Italian settlers got killed. In fact quite a few of them have joined the Yugoslav partisans after 1943, but after May 1945 the Yugoslav authorities deported them to Italy, promptly confiscating their property (house and land).

From what I could see on RAI footage they were able to take what was necessary to survive, some even took some wagons full of furniture and personal belogings*. There were no mass executions which you would so likely to impose here to the readership. But there were several executions of captured RSI soldiers, this I have never denied. Personally if you ask me the tradegy of Italian population of Istria and Dalmatia can in no way compare with what the Yugoslav-Germans had to go through, especially the Gottschers, who had to spent a great deal of 1945 in various camps in Lower Styria, dying en masse from typhoid, malnutrition and executions.

* Pola (cro. Pulj) had, I believe, circa 70,000 inhabitants in 1941, of which almost all have left the town in 1945-1946 and remarkably they had all reached the border safe and sound.
The historical difference is the same you may find between a murderer and a victim. That's all
I agree, but your problem is that you are looking on this problem only though one eye, refusing the accept the whole story, which is a just a bit more complex than you are trying to show here so eagerly.

As I said, if you don't know the whole story from both sides be rather quiet and tell just that what is related with the Italians, restraining from those small ironic insults, which you so like to put under each of your message. You would all do us a great favour. :wink:
Brioni had no military value but was famous for her marvellous hotels and villas. A VIP residence it become, after the war, the personal buen retiro of Tito who
Brioni did not became an elite resort and a private property of Tito until late 1960s. Before that the islands were boasting with just a few small fishing villages and the military installations that I have already mentioned at the start of this message of mine.
Me and two friends of mine spent an entire afternoon laughing without interruption, everything seemed funny. We still remember it as one of the most funny moment of our recent lives
Don't know what you have found so funny on the Briones. I have found them to be a remarkable boring (dull) place.

Lp,

Klemen
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"

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Post by KlemenL » Mon May 19, 2003 4:00 pm

KlemenL wrote:
Just a warning, keep the political flames out of this discussion.
Sorry, Jason but by calling insults to other people you certainly won't get any admiration nor the actual replies as a matter in fact. I have kindly explained this to Enrico in one of my earlier messages, but he seems he simply ignored that. Now either we will "play fair" here on a mutual respect or I am off this board. Es ist mir egal.

LINK:
Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:59 am Post subject: fascism
http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopi ... ght=#23725
Sincerly Jason, Brioni are so little and without any military value that I wonder if they had some population during WWII...not to tell about a garrison!
Actually Lupo, the Island of Brioni have had some sort of strategical value in the past before 1918 that is (and probably also during 1918-1945), when the Austrians had built some fortresses and installed coastal artillery to protect the naval base in Pula Bay. I believe the Italians inherited these forts, but don't know if they were still active in 1940a when the war has started. In any case the islands itself were not exactly entirely without any living souls.
Lusini hosted a X MAS training center in last years of war but I got no infos about 1941
One Lussaner also won the Medaglie D'Oro during WWII in the Regia Marina.
One of these team had, in May 1943, according the common version know among the people, the purpose to kill the Duce, who had his residence (la Rocca delle Caminate) and the habit to relax sometimes with an holiday on the sand, at Riccione, not far from there.
:?: :?: OK, now was the mission of that group of British commandos to eliminate Mussolini or is this just another gossip?
And now a little note for Klemen, my love: it's possible that there were Italian immigrants in Istria among the two world wars (it's the first time I heard such but everything is possible and when you do not quote numbers EVERYTHING is possible)
As I told you before your knowledge of the national composition of the Istria and Dalmatia seems to me to be seriously hampered by a serious lack of knowledge.
but they didn't occupied someone other houses killing in quite a barbaric way (after the war, of course, as before it was too much dangerous) the owners plundering private and public goods too.
OK, let me see if I got this right. First you say YOU DON'T KNOW of any Italian settlers from Central and Southern Italy being re-settled to Dalmatia and Istria but in the same breath you are claiming you're absolutely certain that THEY (who? The settlers that settled in Istria, but still don't know whether they did or not?? :!: :?: ) did not kill or financially destroyed the Slovene or Croatian natives, thus forcing them to emmigration, confiscating their land and eventually selling it to the Italian settlers??? How are you so sure about this if you don't even know anything about Italian emmigration waves to Istria and Dalmatia in 1930s and 1940s is really beyond me. Now either you're making fools from other respective members of this forum, either your're not serious here and have based your knowledge on one side only or you simply don't know what are you talking about.
killing in quite a barbaric way
Your should really get rid of of these stereotypes of "everything what comes east of isonzo" being a barbaric country, where killings and kidnappings are a daily routine. In reality very few Italian settlers got killed. In fact quite a few of them have joined the Yugoslav partisans after 1943, but after May 1945 the Yugoslav authorities deported them to Italy, promptly confiscating their property (house and land).

From what I could see on RAI footage they were able to take what was necessary to survive, some even took some wagons full of furniture and personal belogings*. There were no mass executions which you would so likely to impose here to the readership. But there were several executions of captured RSI soldiers, this I have never denied. Personally if you ask me the tradegy of Italian population of Istria and Dalmatia can in no way compare with what the Yugoslav-Germans had to go through, especially the Gottschers, who had to spent a great deal of 1945 in various camps in Lower Styria, dying en masse from typhoid, malnutrition and executions.

* Pola (cro. Pulj) had, I believe, circa 70,000 inhabitants in 1941, of which almost all have left the town in 1945-1946 and remarkably they had all reached the border safe and sound.
The historical difference is the same you may find between a murderer and a victim. That's all
I agree, but your problem is that you are looking on this problem only though one eye, refusing the accept the whole story, which is a just a bit more complex than you are trying to show here so eagerly.

As I said, if you don't know the whole story from both sides be rather quiet and tell just that what is related with the Italians, restraining from those small ironic insults, which you so like to put under each of your message. You would all do us a great favour. :wink:
Brioni had no military value but was famous for her marvellous hotels and villas. A VIP residence it become, after the war, the personal buen retiro of Tito who
Brioni did not became an elite resort and a private property of Tito until late 1960s. Before that the islands were boasting with just a few small fishing villages and the military installations that I have already mentioned at the start of this message of mine.
Me and two friends of mine spent an entire afternoon laughing without interruption, everything seemed funny. We still remember it as one of the most funny moment of our recent lives
Don't know what you have found so funny on the Briones. I have found them to be a remarkable boring (dull) place.

Lp,

Klemen
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"

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Post by KlemenL » Mon May 19, 2003 4:04 pm

Jason, is there any chance to add a DELETE button so that we can delete the twice posted messages? This get's a bit annoying.

KL
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KlemenL
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Post by KlemenL » Tue May 20, 2003 5:09 am

Looking for a delete button for filthy realities too?
Evidently you are having some problems with your manners. Until then...

KL
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them .... Oh my god!!!!! What have I just said?!!!"

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