Gents,
I am currently working with some sources on GD panzer losses and found interesting information. So, during only one month of combats of 1943 (29 Sep -29 Oct 1943) GD lost 35 Tigers as a complete write-off!
29 Sep 1943 - 4 Tigers are lost in action
9 Oct 1943 - 5 Tigers are lost in action
18 Oct 1943 - 13 Tigers are lost; 10 Tigers (ex-Pz Lehr) that were on the way to III. Abt Pz Rgt GD are captured by the Russians while being moved by rail
20 Oct 1943 - 7 Tigers are lost in action, 23 Tigers on hand, in action near Krivoi Rog
23 Oct 1943 - 6 Tigers are lost to the end of the month
I am especially interested on the accident happened on October 18th 1943, when 10 Tigers were captured by Russians while being moved by rail. Does somebody can provide details how and where exactly this happened? Thanks in advance.
Best Regards from Russia,
Tiger losses of sPzAbt GD on the Eastern Front
Moderator: sniper1shot
Hi Igor,
a massive russian attack started from the bridgehead near Mischurin Rog on 15.10.1943. The left neighbour of GD was the 9. Panzerdivision. Russian tanks moved through their line without a stop to the railroad Pjatichatki-Bykowo.
The railway station Pjatichatki was in the rear of 9. PD and GD, some trains were standing in the railway station. They were destroyed by russian tanks, which broke through the thin lines of both divisions and hurried to the south. After this, the railway station was retaken, the tanks were destroyed. Many wounded men, which also were on the trains, died.
Sorry, no more details.
quoted from Spaeter, Panzerkorps Grossdeutschland and Schneider, TiK.
Greetings
Thomas
a massive russian attack started from the bridgehead near Mischurin Rog on 15.10.1943. The left neighbour of GD was the 9. Panzerdivision. Russian tanks moved through their line without a stop to the railroad Pjatichatki-Bykowo.
The railway station Pjatichatki was in the rear of 9. PD and GD, some trains were standing in the railway station. They were destroyed by russian tanks, which broke through the thin lines of both divisions and hurried to the south. After this, the railway station was retaken, the tanks were destroyed. Many wounded men, which also were on the trains, died.
Sorry, no more details.
quoted from Spaeter, Panzerkorps Grossdeutschland and Schneider, TiK.
Greetings
Thomas
Thomas,cpa95 wrote:Hi Igor,
a massive russian attack started from the bridgehead near Mischurin Rog on 15.10.1943. The left neighbour of GD was the 9. Panzerdivision. Russian tanks moved through their line without a stop to the railroad Pjatichatki-Bykowo.
The railway station Pjatichatki was in the rear of 9. PD and GD, some trains were standing in the railway station. They were destroyed by russian tanks, which broke through the thin lines of both divisions and hurried to the south. After this, the railway station was retaken, the tanks were destroyed. Many wounded men, which also were on the trains, died.
Sorry, no more details.
quoted from Spaeter, Panzerkorps Grossdeutschland and Schneider, TiK.
Greetings
Thomas
Some more details from the official Soviet Information Bureau statement of October 19th, 1943.
“During 19th October 1943 in the area to the south-east of Kremenchug our troops breaking enemy resistance went on developing offensive and advanced up to 15-20 kilometers managed to capture a town and railroad nod of Pyatikhatka… Thus an important communication line of Germans, the Dnepropetrovsk-Znamenka railroad, was cut by our forces. According to some rough estimation the following booties were captured by our troops: fifteen railroad cars, 30 tanks including 17 Tigers, 172 cannons, 1,300 half-trucks/cars, 600 machine guns and munitions/rations depots/warehouses. 1,800 German soldiers and officers were captures as POW.”
The Soviet tankers who captured a train with Tigers belonged to the 29th Tank Corps of the 5th Guards Tank Army of General Pavel Rotmistrov.
Best Regards from Russia,
Igor
Hi Igorn,Igorn wrote:... Thus an important communication line of Germans, the Dnepropetrovsk-Znamenka railroad, was cut by our forces. According to some rough estimation the following booties were captured by our troops: fifteen railroad cars, 30 tanks including 17 Tigers, 172 cannons, 1,300 half-trucks/cars, 600 machine guns and munitions/rations depots/warehouses. 1,800 German soldiers and officers were captures as POW.”
an important line of supply for both divisions too.
Capturing the Tigers doesnt mean that they could transport them to the russian lines. I understand Spaeter in the way, that the Tigers were destroyed during the counterattack.
Greetings
Thomas
Gents,
Some information from 'The History of Panzerregiment Großdeutschland, by Hans-Joachim Jung':
"On 17 October 1943 the enemy was at Taranzoff. The enemy spearheads turned and spread confusion among supply, workshop and medical units. At Pjatichatki ambulance trains were were shot up and set on fire. The wounded saved themselves on foot at the last minute. Counterattacking units found a frightful scene when they reached the railroad station. Ten new Tigers destined for III./Panzerregiment Großdeutschland fell into the enemy hands, still on the flatcars with their transport tracks. Unit trains fleeing Pjatichatki lost a number of vehicles to enemy tank fire. "
Best Regards from Russia,
Some information from 'The History of Panzerregiment Großdeutschland, by Hans-Joachim Jung':
"On 17 October 1943 the enemy was at Taranzoff. The enemy spearheads turned and spread confusion among supply, workshop and medical units. At Pjatichatki ambulance trains were were shot up and set on fire. The wounded saved themselves on foot at the last minute. Counterattacking units found a frightful scene when they reached the railroad station. Ten new Tigers destined for III./Panzerregiment Großdeutschland fell into the enemy hands, still on the flatcars with their transport tracks. Unit trains fleeing Pjatichatki lost a number of vehicles to enemy tank fire. "
Best Regards from Russia,
Igor
Gents,
I am reading now Hans-Joachim Jung's, The History of the Panzerregiment GD and found there a teaching example of the combat tactics applied by a Russian unit against Tigers.
"The III./Panzer-Regiment GD suffered a painful loss on 8-9 October 1943. Together with the 2. (SPW) Schwadron of Panzeraufklarungsabtelung GD and infantry, five Tigers conducted a counterattack to take a commanding hill. The Tigers made good progress but the SPW and infantry were unable to follow in the sunflower and corn fields and became separated from the tanks. The Tigers were surrounded and could not break out. Radio contact was maintained for a while, however reconnaissance aircraft later determined that the tanks had been knocked out. Oberleutnant Arnold and Leutnant Folke were captured together with their crews; only Folke survived to return home in 1953 after ten years as a prisoner. The number of serviceable tanks was approaching zero."
Hans-Joachim Jung's, The History of the Panzerregiment GD, PP. 155-156.
![:[]](./images/smilies/icon_study.gif "Study")
Here is a description of the same combat in Helmuth Spaeter, The History of the Panzercorps GD:
"The group comprising the remnants of III (Tiger) Battalion, Panzer Regiment GD, under command of Oberleutnant Bayer, commander of 11th Company, suffered a severe loss on the 8th or 9th of October. A joint advance against the well-known "seven-nipple hill", east of Point 172.2, several Tigers together with the 2nd (APC) Company, Armoured Reconnaissance Battalion GD and the following infantry. Employing all of means available, this attack was supposed to finally place this decisive group of hills in German hands. The attack began in the late morning. While the panzers with their wide tracks made comparatively rapid progress in the difficult terrain and were able to pass through the tall sunflower and wheat fields with relative ease, the small number of one-ton armoured personnel carriers were left behind at the edge of these fields with twisted tracks. As well the men in the open APCs had to defend themselves against the numerous Soviets who, hidden in thei foxholes, tried to toss grenades into the vehicles. The advance was thus slowed to a crawl. Contact was lost with the fast-moving panzers. Apparently the enemy had also realized that the tanks had lost their infantry cover and permitted them to drive through unmolested. They then sealed off the area behind the panzers with anti-tank guns and hand-held weapons and encircled them. Neither were tanks, which were now under fire from all sides by anti-tank guns, able to break through to the rear; nor could the armoured personnel carriers pierce the Soviet blocking ring and establish contact with them.
Stukas and reconnaissance aircraft later determined that all the surrounded tanks had been knocked out or captured. By evening the radio listening service had learned the names of the survivors who had been taken prisoner. They included Oberleutnant Arnold (10th Company), leader of the panzer operation, Leutnant Folke (9th Company), Oberfeldwebel Friedebach (H.Q. Company), Obergefreiter Jensen (H.Q. Company), Obergefreiter Fritz (H.Q. Company) and Unteroffizier Mueller (H.Q. Company). Leutnant Folke returned in 1953 after ten years as a prisoner, nothing more was ever heard of the others. With this loss the number of operational tanks had fallen to zero. The effects of this were to make themselves felt in the decisive fight for Borodayevka in the following days.”
Helmuth Spaeter, The History of the Panzercorps GD, Vol. 2, PP. 217-218
Best Regards from Russia,
I am reading now Hans-Joachim Jung's, The History of the Panzerregiment GD and found there a teaching example of the combat tactics applied by a Russian unit against Tigers.
"The III./Panzer-Regiment GD suffered a painful loss on 8-9 October 1943. Together with the 2. (SPW) Schwadron of Panzeraufklarungsabtelung GD and infantry, five Tigers conducted a counterattack to take a commanding hill. The Tigers made good progress but the SPW and infantry were unable to follow in the sunflower and corn fields and became separated from the tanks. The Tigers were surrounded and could not break out. Radio contact was maintained for a while, however reconnaissance aircraft later determined that the tanks had been knocked out. Oberleutnant Arnold and Leutnant Folke were captured together with their crews; only Folke survived to return home in 1953 after ten years as a prisoner. The number of serviceable tanks was approaching zero."
Hans-Joachim Jung's, The History of the Panzerregiment GD, PP. 155-156.
Here is a description of the same combat in Helmuth Spaeter, The History of the Panzercorps GD:
"The group comprising the remnants of III (Tiger) Battalion, Panzer Regiment GD, under command of Oberleutnant Bayer, commander of 11th Company, suffered a severe loss on the 8th or 9th of October. A joint advance against the well-known "seven-nipple hill", east of Point 172.2, several Tigers together with the 2nd (APC) Company, Armoured Reconnaissance Battalion GD and the following infantry. Employing all of means available, this attack was supposed to finally place this decisive group of hills in German hands. The attack began in the late morning. While the panzers with their wide tracks made comparatively rapid progress in the difficult terrain and were able to pass through the tall sunflower and wheat fields with relative ease, the small number of one-ton armoured personnel carriers were left behind at the edge of these fields with twisted tracks. As well the men in the open APCs had to defend themselves against the numerous Soviets who, hidden in thei foxholes, tried to toss grenades into the vehicles. The advance was thus slowed to a crawl. Contact was lost with the fast-moving panzers. Apparently the enemy had also realized that the tanks had lost their infantry cover and permitted them to drive through unmolested. They then sealed off the area behind the panzers with anti-tank guns and hand-held weapons and encircled them. Neither were tanks, which were now under fire from all sides by anti-tank guns, able to break through to the rear; nor could the armoured personnel carriers pierce the Soviet blocking ring and establish contact with them.
Stukas and reconnaissance aircraft later determined that all the surrounded tanks had been knocked out or captured. By evening the radio listening service had learned the names of the survivors who had been taken prisoner. They included Oberleutnant Arnold (10th Company), leader of the panzer operation, Leutnant Folke (9th Company), Oberfeldwebel Friedebach (H.Q. Company), Obergefreiter Jensen (H.Q. Company), Obergefreiter Fritz (H.Q. Company) and Unteroffizier Mueller (H.Q. Company). Leutnant Folke returned in 1953 after ten years as a prisoner, nothing more was ever heard of the others. With this loss the number of operational tanks had fallen to zero. The effects of this were to make themselves felt in the decisive fight for Borodayevka in the following days.”
Helmuth Spaeter, The History of the Panzercorps GD, Vol. 2, PP. 217-218
Best Regards from Russia,
Igor
Gents,
I am reading Helmuth Spaeter’s book on the history of GD and found there an interesting info about quite rare Tiger –JS-2 tank engagement happened on 6 August 1944 near Wirballen.
“There was no resumption of the attack in III Battalion’s attack lane to the right of the road from Wirballen to the northeast on 6 August. However the panzer-grenadiers of I and II Battalions attacked with support from several Tigers and after some heavy fighting took possession of Hill 51. Four of the Tigers, tanks C 11, C 12, C 13 and C 14, were knocked out. Among the crew memebers of the four tanks were Oberleutnant Leusing, Unteroffizier Tesmer, Obergefreiter Bormann, Feldwebel Foerster, Obergefreiter Nadler, Obergefreiter Brauer, Obergefreiter Galle, Unteroffizier Bahr, Gefreiter Figl and Unteroffizier Maierhoff. The opposition that day was provided by 72-ton Stalin tanks, armed with a 122mm gun. With its superior firepower, the Josef Stalin had ended the Tiger’s dominance on the Eastern Front. The toughness of the fighting for the Hill 51 was reflected in the loss lists. 6th Company, II Battalion, Panzer-Grenadier Regiment GD alone lost one NCO and five men killed as well as 20 wounded.”
Helmuth Spaeter, The History of the Panzercorps GD, Vol. 2, PP. 386
Here is the same combat in desription of Hans-Joachim Jung:
“While the Panzergrenadiere and assault guns advanced on Wilkowischken from the south, entering the town in spite of minefields, the entire Panzerregiment skirted the town to the east. Led by the Panthers, with the Tigers on the right flank and followed by Panzer IV’s, the regiment attacked under cover of dense fog. Surprise was complete. Not until the fog lifted did Stalin tanks and assault guns join the battle and engage the Tigers guarding the flank. The Tiger of the commander of the III. Abteilung, Oberstleutnant Baumongk, was knocked out and he was seriously wounded. The III. Abteilung lost three other Tigers on that day; platoon leader in the 10. Kompanie, and several other men were killed. Hauptmann Bock assumed command of the III. Abteilung; tank losses were becoming more serious. Josef Stalin heavy tanks, SU 100 and SU 122/152 assault guns and antitank guns camouflaged in the broken up terrain made the going difficult.”
Hans-Joachim Jung's, The History of the Panzerregiment GD, PP. 237
And dry facts from Wolfgang Schneider’s Tigers in Combat II:
“6 August 1944: Attack from Wirballen to northeast (Oberleutnant Leusing). Tigers C11, C12, C13 and C14 are knocked out by Joseph Stalin heavy tanks.
Total tanks: 34
9 August 1944: Assembly in the area of Wilkowischken. Attack within the regiment towards Wilkowischken. The battalion commander’s tank is knocked out, and he is severely wounded. Hauptmann Bock assumes command. Two Tigers of the 10./Panzer-Regiment “GD” (Leutnant Kurz and Oberfeldwebel Machleit) and Tiger C24 (Feldwebel Drenkhan) are knocked out. Several Tigers in action in Wilkowischken with Panzer-Fuesiler-Battalion “GD”
Total Tanks: 30
10 August 1944: Covering positions occupied north of Wolfsburg. One Tiger (Stabsfeldwebel Will) starts burning out after two hits from antitank guns; the crew manages to bail out.
Total tanks: 29”
So, only during five days of combat GD lost 9 Tigers as complete write-off, mostly destroyed by JS-2.
Best Regards from Russia,
I am reading Helmuth Spaeter’s book on the history of GD and found there an interesting info about quite rare Tiger –JS-2 tank engagement happened on 6 August 1944 near Wirballen.
“There was no resumption of the attack in III Battalion’s attack lane to the right of the road from Wirballen to the northeast on 6 August. However the panzer-grenadiers of I and II Battalions attacked with support from several Tigers and after some heavy fighting took possession of Hill 51. Four of the Tigers, tanks C 11, C 12, C 13 and C 14, were knocked out. Among the crew memebers of the four tanks were Oberleutnant Leusing, Unteroffizier Tesmer, Obergefreiter Bormann, Feldwebel Foerster, Obergefreiter Nadler, Obergefreiter Brauer, Obergefreiter Galle, Unteroffizier Bahr, Gefreiter Figl and Unteroffizier Maierhoff. The opposition that day was provided by 72-ton Stalin tanks, armed with a 122mm gun. With its superior firepower, the Josef Stalin had ended the Tiger’s dominance on the Eastern Front. The toughness of the fighting for the Hill 51 was reflected in the loss lists. 6th Company, II Battalion, Panzer-Grenadier Regiment GD alone lost one NCO and five men killed as well as 20 wounded.”
Helmuth Spaeter, The History of the Panzercorps GD, Vol. 2, PP. 386
Here is the same combat in desription of Hans-Joachim Jung:
“While the Panzergrenadiere and assault guns advanced on Wilkowischken from the south, entering the town in spite of minefields, the entire Panzerregiment skirted the town to the east. Led by the Panthers, with the Tigers on the right flank and followed by Panzer IV’s, the regiment attacked under cover of dense fog. Surprise was complete. Not until the fog lifted did Stalin tanks and assault guns join the battle and engage the Tigers guarding the flank. The Tiger of the commander of the III. Abteilung, Oberstleutnant Baumongk, was knocked out and he was seriously wounded. The III. Abteilung lost three other Tigers on that day; platoon leader in the 10. Kompanie, and several other men were killed. Hauptmann Bock assumed command of the III. Abteilung; tank losses were becoming more serious. Josef Stalin heavy tanks, SU 100 and SU 122/152 assault guns and antitank guns camouflaged in the broken up terrain made the going difficult.”
Hans-Joachim Jung's, The History of the Panzerregiment GD, PP. 237
And dry facts from Wolfgang Schneider’s Tigers in Combat II:
“6 August 1944: Attack from Wirballen to northeast (Oberleutnant Leusing). Tigers C11, C12, C13 and C14 are knocked out by Joseph Stalin heavy tanks.
Total tanks: 34
9 August 1944: Assembly in the area of Wilkowischken. Attack within the regiment towards Wilkowischken. The battalion commander’s tank is knocked out, and he is severely wounded. Hauptmann Bock assumes command. Two Tigers of the 10./Panzer-Regiment “GD” (Leutnant Kurz and Oberfeldwebel Machleit) and Tiger C24 (Feldwebel Drenkhan) are knocked out. Several Tigers in action in Wilkowischken with Panzer-Fuesiler-Battalion “GD”
Total Tanks: 30
10 August 1944: Covering positions occupied north of Wolfsburg. One Tiger (Stabsfeldwebel Will) starts burning out after two hits from antitank guns; the crew manages to bail out.
Total tanks: 29”
So, only during five days of combat GD lost 9 Tigers as complete write-off, mostly destroyed by JS-2.
Best Regards from Russia,
Igor
Gents,
I am reading Helmuth Spaeter’s book on the history of GD and found there an interesting info about quite rare Tiger –JS-2 tank engagement happened on 6 August 1944 near Wirballen.
“There was no resumption of the attack in III Battalion’s attack lane to the right of the road from Wirballen to the northeast on 6 August. However the panzer-grenadiers of I and II Battalions attacked with support from several Tigers and after some heavy fighting took possession of Hill 51. Four of the Tigers, tanks C 11, C 12, C 13 and C 14, were knocked out. Among the crew memebers of the four tanks were Oberleutnant Leusing, Unteroffizier Tesmer, Obergefreiter Bormann, Feldwebel Foerster, Obergefreiter Nadler, Obergefreiter Brauer, Obergefreiter Galle, Unteroffizier Bahr, Gefreiter Figl and Unteroffizier Maierhoff. The opposition that day was provided by 72-ton Stalin tanks, armed with a 122mm gun. With its superior firepower, the Josef Stalin had ended the Tiger’s dominance on the Eastern Front. The toughness of the fighting for the Hill 51 was reflected in the loss lists. 6th Company, II Battalion, Panzer-Grenadier Regiment GD alone lost one NCO and five men killed as well as 20 wounded.”
Helmuth Spaeter, The History of the Panzercorps GD, Vol. 2, PP. 386
Here is the same combat in desription of Hans-Joachim Jung:
“While the Panzergrenadiere and assault guns advanced on Wilkowischken from the south, entering the town in spite of minefields, the entire Panzerregiment skirted the town to the east. Led by the Panthers, with the Tigers on the right flank and followed by Panzer IV’s, the regiment attacked under cover of dense fog. Surprise was complete. Not until the fog lifted did Stalin tanks and assault guns join the battle and engage the Tigers guarding the flank. The Tiger of the commander of the III. Abteilung, Oberstleutnant Baumongk, was knocked out and he was seriously wounded. The III. Abteilung lost three other Tigers on that day; platoon leader in the 10. Kompanie, and several other men were killed. Hauptmann Bock assumed command of the III. Abteilung; tank losses were becoming more serious. Josef Stalin heavy tanks, SU 100 and SU 122/152 assault guns and antitank guns camouflaged in the broken up terrain made the going difficult.”
Hans-Joachim Jung's, The History of the Panzerregiment GD, PP. 237
And dry facts from Wolfgang Schneider’s Tigers in Combat II:
“6 August 1944: Attack from Wirballen to northeast (Oberleutnant Leusing). Tigers C11, C12, C13 and C14 are knocked out by Joseph Stalin heavy tanks.
Total tanks: 34
9 August 1944: Assembly in the area of Wilkowischken. Attack within the regiment towards Wilkowischken. The battalion commander’s tank is knocked out, and he is severely wounded. Hauptmann Bock assumes command. Two Tigers of the 10./Panzer-Regiment “GD” (Leutnant Kurz and Oberfeldwebel Machleit) and Tiger C24 (Feldwebel Drenkhan) are knocked out. Several Tigers in action in Wilkowischken with Panzer-Fuesiler-Battalion “GD”
Total Tanks: 30
10 August 1944: Covering positions occupied north of Wolfsburg. One Tiger (Stabsfeldwebel Will) starts burning out after two hits from antitank guns; the crew manages to bail out.
Total tanks: 29”
So, only during five days of combat GD lost 9 Tigers as complete write-off, mostly destroyed by JS-2.
Best Regards from Russia,
I am reading Helmuth Spaeter’s book on the history of GD and found there an interesting info about quite rare Tiger –JS-2 tank engagement happened on 6 August 1944 near Wirballen.
“There was no resumption of the attack in III Battalion’s attack lane to the right of the road from Wirballen to the northeast on 6 August. However the panzer-grenadiers of I and II Battalions attacked with support from several Tigers and after some heavy fighting took possession of Hill 51. Four of the Tigers, tanks C 11, C 12, C 13 and C 14, were knocked out. Among the crew memebers of the four tanks were Oberleutnant Leusing, Unteroffizier Tesmer, Obergefreiter Bormann, Feldwebel Foerster, Obergefreiter Nadler, Obergefreiter Brauer, Obergefreiter Galle, Unteroffizier Bahr, Gefreiter Figl and Unteroffizier Maierhoff. The opposition that day was provided by 72-ton Stalin tanks, armed with a 122mm gun. With its superior firepower, the Josef Stalin had ended the Tiger’s dominance on the Eastern Front. The toughness of the fighting for the Hill 51 was reflected in the loss lists. 6th Company, II Battalion, Panzer-Grenadier Regiment GD alone lost one NCO and five men killed as well as 20 wounded.”
Helmuth Spaeter, The History of the Panzercorps GD, Vol. 2, PP. 386
Here is the same combat in desription of Hans-Joachim Jung:
“While the Panzergrenadiere and assault guns advanced on Wilkowischken from the south, entering the town in spite of minefields, the entire Panzerregiment skirted the town to the east. Led by the Panthers, with the Tigers on the right flank and followed by Panzer IV’s, the regiment attacked under cover of dense fog. Surprise was complete. Not until the fog lifted did Stalin tanks and assault guns join the battle and engage the Tigers guarding the flank. The Tiger of the commander of the III. Abteilung, Oberstleutnant Baumongk, was knocked out and he was seriously wounded. The III. Abteilung lost three other Tigers on that day; platoon leader in the 10. Kompanie, and several other men were killed. Hauptmann Bock assumed command of the III. Abteilung; tank losses were becoming more serious. Josef Stalin heavy tanks, SU 100 and SU 122/152 assault guns and antitank guns camouflaged in the broken up terrain made the going difficult.”
Hans-Joachim Jung's, The History of the Panzerregiment GD, PP. 237
And dry facts from Wolfgang Schneider’s Tigers in Combat II:
“6 August 1944: Attack from Wirballen to northeast (Oberleutnant Leusing). Tigers C11, C12, C13 and C14 are knocked out by Joseph Stalin heavy tanks.
Total tanks: 34
9 August 1944: Assembly in the area of Wilkowischken. Attack within the regiment towards Wilkowischken. The battalion commander’s tank is knocked out, and he is severely wounded. Hauptmann Bock assumes command. Two Tigers of the 10./Panzer-Regiment “GD” (Leutnant Kurz and Oberfeldwebel Machleit) and Tiger C24 (Feldwebel Drenkhan) are knocked out. Several Tigers in action in Wilkowischken with Panzer-Fuesiler-Battalion “GD”
Total Tanks: 30
10 August 1944: Covering positions occupied north of Wolfsburg. One Tiger (Stabsfeldwebel Will) starts burning out after two hits from antitank guns; the crew manages to bail out.
Total tanks: 29”
So, only during five days of combat GD lost 9 Tigers as complete write-off, mostly destroyed by JS-2.
Best Regards from Russia,
Igor
-
sniper1shot
- Moderator
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:56 pm
- Location: Canada
As mentioned, only to add to your "facts" that the German Army was continually bad.I am reading Helmuth Spaeter’s, The History of Panzercorps GD” and Hans-Joahim Jung’s The History of Panzerregiment “GD”. During last year I read at least 20 new books about the war on the Ost Front from German perspective
As stated in my previous post to you Igorn, you are not balancing your posts. I do not remember anyone ASKING for this info yet you are continually posting how great the Soviet Armed Forces were.
Apparently from your post, the Soviets didn't lose a single tanks or soldier.
Please start to give facts & figures for BOTH sides in any battle you now post on. No matter how bad it might come out for the Soviet side. That will add credibility to your "studies" and actually might start some discussions.
Last note.......out of the previous 11 posts you have 8 of them. Nothing like trying to cram info down someones throat eh.
Only he is lost who gives himself up as lost.
Do not make conclusions on my behalf. I have never said that that German Army “was continually bad”. On the contrary, in my opinion Wehrmacht was the most dangerous and respected (from military point of view) opponent Russian Army has ever faced on the battlefield since the times of Chingis-Khan. And this makes our victory in WW2 even more pleasant. We really defeated a strong enemy and have all the reasons to be proud of it. And when many W-SS and Wehrmacht fans on this forum are saying that operationally and tactically German Army always superceeded Russian Army and German weapon (e.g. Tigers or Panthers) was better I am just providing facts supported by German or Western sources proving that this was not the case like in example when GD Tigers were knocked out by JS-2 tanks in August of 1944.sniper1shot wrote:As mentioned, only to add to your "facts" that the German Army was continually bad. As stated in my previous post to you Igorn, you are not balancing your posts. I do not remember anyone ASKING for this info yet you are continually posting how great the Soviet Armed Forces were.I am reading Helmuth Spaeter’s, The History of Panzercorps GD” and Hans-Joahim Jung’s The History of Panzerregiment “GD”. During last year I read at least 20 new books about the war on the Ost Front from German perspective
Just check the thread regarding the losses of the 1st Tank Army of General Katukov during Citadel, where I provided actual loss figure for this Tank Army based on the Russian archives and official combat history chronicles.sniper1shot wrote:Apparently from your post, the Soviets didn't lose a single tanks or soldier. .
sniper1shot wrote: Please start to give facts & figures for BOTH sides in any battle you now post on. No matter how bad it might come out for the Soviet side. That will add credibility to your "studies" and actually might start some discussions.
What I see that some people on this forum get nervous and emotional when I disprove many myphs and legends surrounding events on the Ost Front and provide historical facts and true examples when Wehrmacht and Waffen SS suffered painful tactical, operational and strategic defeats on the Eastern Front.
Best Regards from Russia,
Igor
-
sniper1shot
- Moderator
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:56 pm
- Location: Canada
First time I can remember you ever mentioning this.On the contrary, in my opinion Wehrmacht was the most dangerous and respected (from military point of view) opponent Russian Army has ever faced on the battlefield since the times of Chingis-Khan.
No, not always, but more than you let on. The JS-2 was developed to combat the Tigers so in my mind it did its job. Just like the Tiger was developed to combat the T34.....saying that operationally and tactically German Army always superceeded Russian Army and German weapon (e.g. Tigers or Panthers) was better I am just providing facts supported by German or Western sources proving that this was not the case like in example when GD Tigers were knocked out by JS-2 tanks in August of 1944.
Well, if you are just going on Soviet research to prove historical facts, then that is why so many people get emotional. Soviet research and interviews were not known to be 100% truthful to the situation.What I see that some people on this forum get nervous and emotional when I disprove many myphs and legends surrounding events on the Ost Front and provide historical facts
I don't think anyone gets nervous though.
What Myths are all the W-SS and Wehrmacht followers believing??
(if you don't answer anything else please answer this one, as I am curious)
Only he is lost who gives himself up as lost.
Sniper, No one is forcing you to read it. The only one who has any basis for complaining about Igor putting up many posts is the administrator.sniper1shot wrote:I do not remember anyone ASKING for this info yet you are continually posting how great the Soviet Armed Forces were.
Igor, are you listing these facts just for general knowledge or are you trying to prove something? I mean, we know that the Germans lost tanks.