Which city should hitler have gone for on the russian front?

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:27 pm

nibelung my info may be wrong about the divisions being left in greece but that doesnt mean 2 panzer div couldnt have been crippled all it takes is determined group of soilders to charge the tanks jump on the roofs open a hatch and throw in a grenade. if you dont believe me read a book called A Bridge To Far it will tell stories of men jumping onto and destroying tanks with a single grenade. and they still had 300 aircraft which could have dive bombed. plus the brits and greeks could have set up tanks to assault the panzers and destroy some

Nibelung · Post by **Nibelung** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:43 am

von_noobie,

may I just ask you if you really consider those "rambo" actions to be able to partly cripple 2 panzer divisions!

I guess that after many fast and successful campaings in Poland and France the Wehrmacht would be well enough prepared for a task such as the Balkans. And let's face it; why would the Yugoslav army try to conduct any of such missions as you suggest? To have even higher losses? To prove itself in a lost battle?

I think that this will not hold water my friend...

As far as your sources are concerned we still have no clue whatsoever to what you may be refering.

best,
Nibelung

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:04 am

not necesarilly the yugoslavians but the british and australian divisions , the australian 6th division was ment to have supossibly inflicted heavy loss to thepanzer divisions in front of them when they halte the german advance on some road or pass throght some mountains not exactly sure were

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:08 am

thethe sources im refering to were involved in operation market garden , u know were 35000 allied paratroopers droped in to the netherlands but although they didnt capture the bridge they jumped from trees houses buildings etc omto tanks to destroy them , if u wont to spend some time finding runsdelt he will even back me up on the 'RAMBO" tactics that the british used .

Casarez · Post by **Casarez** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:14 am

von_noobie wrote:thethe sources im refering to were involved in operation market garden , u know were 35000 allied paratroopers droped in to the netherlands but although they didnt capture the bridge they jumped from trees houses buildings etc omto tanks to destroy them , if u wont to spend some time finding runsdelt he will even back me up on the 'RAMBO" tactics that the british used .

You know I have read some great discussions on campaigns and battles with people on either side providing well thought out arguments and providing sources for the elements making up their arguement. I have yet to see that with you.

You have been asked to document the sources you are pulling from to get your information. The reason they are asking is that there are books and a lot of websites which have faulty or incomplete (not to mention just outright untruths) information on them. So instead of blowing it off I would suggest that if you provide the source (even better if you can provide a page number for a book) of where you got your info and keep an open mind and consider the information you have may be incomplete.

Otherwise you are just ranting and will disagree with everyone without ever backing it up. A quick way to have people roll their eyes at your posts or just plain disregard you.

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:10 pm

ok if you like i will start putting in web sites and page numbers

corderex · Post by **corderex** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:18 am

Rambo tactics against a Tiger?
Do you mean like opening the commander's hatch and tossing a hand grenade inside? Well, maybe. Problem is, those Germans used to lock the hatch from the inside when in combat. Tricksy Germans!

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:52 pm

not aginst a Tiger ,

in the balkans the tiger did not exist , it was still on the drawing board

The tiger was in production from july 1942-aug 1944

Nibelung · Post by **Nibelung** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:25 am

You seem to forget that Yugoslavia was not at all motivated to fight! If there was a coup by the officerst that doesn't mean that they represented the real atmosphere in the country. The Wehrmacht was perhaps the most experienced and developed army in Europe at that time, while the Yugoslav army couldn't be even compared to the Polish army of 1939. There were considerable losses in Poland, while Yugoslavia itself was quite a walkthrough.

Not to mention that a great percentage of people were barely able to read - now imagine what a schock it would be when they would encounter a panzer of any kind.

When you say that there were cases of such actions at Arnhem you should be more specific. Those were well trained troops and they had some experiences with tanks before - where would the Yugoslav army of 1941 get that?

Let me ask you this: Were you ever even near the Balkans in your life?

best,
Nibelung

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:51 am

actully no most of the troops in arnhem did not have expierience most of them went through the waar wit lots of training becouse the target that they wouldgo for would be captured before they got there . there were onlya few veteran paratroopers amongst them

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:54 am

im not really talking about the polish army but more about the brits aussies and other troops waiting in greece which did a fair bit of damage to the germans the australian 6th div stopped the german drive forward when they broke trough there lines and allowed brits and other allies to escape to crete

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:58 am

no i have never been near the balkans in my life time since im only 15 but let me throw the Question back at you so have you ?

Nibelung · Post by **Nibelung** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:26 am

von_noobie,

take out your map of Europe. Find Slovenia and then scroll south towards Greece. As you can probably see, it would be very strange if I was never in the Balkans. That's if you know anything about its history... But let me just answer this straight on: I was there - well in a couple of its countries at least.

I'm not talking about the Polish army either...it was just an example.

Greece would also be a bad place to look for great german losses. Sure they were probably stopped at a point or two, but the time they needed to conquer the coutry speaks for itself. And I really don't know what info you have for Greece.

best,
Nibelung

corderex · Post by **corderex** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:09 am

not aginst a Tiger ,

in the balkans the tiger did not exist , it was still on the drawing board

The tiger was in production from july 1942-aug 1944

von_noobie, you specifically mentioned Market Garden and the Netherlands...This is what you posted:

thethe sources im refering to were involved in operation market garden , u know were 35000 allied paratroopers droped in to the netherlands but although they didnt capture the bridge they jumped from trees houses buildings etc omto tanks to destroy them , if u wont to spend some time finding runsdelt he will even back me up on the 'RAMBO" tactics that the british used .

Market Garden: September 1944.

MOGUERA · Post by **MOGUERA** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:59 am

Moscow.

The railroad terminals, factories, hospitals, veterinary clinics, truck depots,
communications centers, made it the clearly superuior choice.

Feldgrau.net

Which city should hitler have gone for on the russian front?

The Balkans and its army in 1941