Heroes

German campaigns and battles 1919-1945.

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Fredd
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Heroes

Post by Fredd »

U.S. CONGRESSMEN COMMEMORATE 60TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE WARSAW UPRISING
WASHINGTON, D.C. - Congressmen Rahm Emanuel (D-IL) and International Relations Committee Chairman Henry Hyde (R-IL) introduced a bipartisan resolution (H. Con. Res. 470) today to recognize the 60th anniversary of the historic Warsaw Uprising in Poland during World War II.

"The rising up of the Polish people against Nazi tyranny in Warsaw six decades ago stands as one of the most heroic episodes in that nation's long road to freedom and independence," said Henry J. Hyde (R-IL), chairman of the House International Relations Committee.


"Poland has stood shoulder-to-shoulder with the United States and its friendship has never wavered through the tumultuous events in our own history," said Emanuel. "In memory of the Poles who bravely fought in the resistance, this resolution says we will never forget their struggle."

The resolution commemorates the historic Warsaw Uprising, which began on August 1, 1944, as part of a nationwide underground resistance effort against the Nazi occupying forces. In some of the most courageous fighting during WWII, the citizens of Poland battled valiantly against the Nazi soldiers for 63 days.

Ultimately, over 250,000 intrepid Polish citizens and troops lost their lives in the fight. The Nazis also destroyed 70 percent of Warsaw as retribution for the uprising. The resolution recognizes the uprising "as a symbol of heroism in the face of great adversity and the pursuit of freedom."

Following is the full text of the resolution:
H. CON. RES. 470
Recognizing the 60th anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising during World War II.

Whereas August 1, 2004, marks the 60th anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising, when against seemingly insurmountable odds and extreme hardships, Polish citizens revolted against the Nazi occupiers in Warsaw, Poland, in one of the most heroic battles during World War II;

Whereas the Warsaw Uprising was a part of a nationwide resistance against the Nazi occupation, was started by the underground Home Army, and lasted 63 days;

Whereas the Polish resistance, many of them teenagers, while heavily outnumbered and armed with mostly homemade weapons, fought bravely against the German soldiers and lost approximately 250,000 civilians and troops;

Whereas, to punish Poland for the uprising, the Nazis systematically razed 70 percent of Warsaw, including monuments, cultural treasures, and historical buildings;

Whereas the heroism and spirit of the Polish resistance are an inspiration to all peoples in their pursuit of liberty and democracy and are evident today in Polish contributions to the global war against terrorism and the more than 2,300 Polish troops currently deployed in Operation Iraqi Freedom; and

Whereas the heroic undertaking of the Polish underground represents one of the most important contributions to the Allied war effort during World War II and remains venerated in the Polish consciousness, even for the generations born after it ended:

Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That Congress recognizes the 60th anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising during World War II which will forever serve as a symbol of heroism in the face of great adversity and the pursuit of freedom.


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One of them (16 years old) murdered by Mr Heinrich-Friedrich "Heinz" Reinefarth men
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Gebirgsjaeger
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Post by Gebirgsjaeger »

No heroes in my opinion. Why couldn´t they just wait for the Soviets? No, they had to try to get a share of the victory-cake and payed dearly for it. I remember a TV show some month ago where one of the Polish veterans whined for some minutes about the bad and unfair Germans using tanks and artillery to defeat them. Well what did they expect? They were a nation that had officially surrendered in 1939 to the German Reich and it was then and is now against international law to attack an occupation force with partisans.
Der Gott, der Eisen wachsen ließ wollte keine Knechte!
Fredd
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Post by Fredd »

Gebirgsjaeger wrote:No heroes in my opinion. Why couldn´t they just wait for the Soviets? No, they had to try to get a share of the victory-cake and payed dearly for it. I remember a TV show some month ago where one of the Polish veterans whined for some minutes about the bad and unfair Germans using tanks and artillery to defeat them. Well what did they expect? They were a nation that had officially surrendered in 1939 to the German Reich and it was then and is now against international law to attack an occupation force with partisans.
I am proud of these kids (most of them were just teenagers or barely above 20 y old) They managed to stand up against Germans for 63 days. They had only small arms while Germans used artillery, tanks, and aircrafts to suppress the Uprising.

The law? Which law allowed to summarily hang woman? Here you may see "polnische banditen" (polish bandits) hanged by Gemans...

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22 y old

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Never Poland surrender to the Reich in 1939!!!! Can you tell me where did you take this information?
Kein Reich, kein Volk, kein Furher!
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Musashi
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Post by Musashi »

Gebirgsjaeger, you are wrong. Some countries surrended to the German Reich, but not Poland :shock: :x :evil:
Besides soldiers who fought in the Warsaw Uprising were considered a legal armed Polish soldiers by Germans. Therefore most of them were not executed as all the Polish captured partisans, but marched to POW camps...
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Post by Fredd »

Musashi wrote:Therefore most of them were not executed as all the Polish captured partisans, but marched to POW camps...
Keep in mind however that only on 5th August over 45.000 civilians were slaugter - usually women and children weren't so lucky and instead march to a POW camp were butchered.
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Gebirgsjaeger
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Post by Gebirgsjaeger »

Facts? Sources for your claims?
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Post by Fredd »

WTF? YOU said Poland did surrender so proof it - where, when i who signed "ei incubit probatio, qui dicit, non qui negat" my friend - and how could I possibly proof that you made up whole 'surrender story" :?:
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Post by Gebirgsjaeger »

They didn´t surrender officially, ok your point. But Poland got it´s ass kicked in a mere three weeks. :-))

Those people in Warsaw were partisans anyway. Not better or worse then the guys in Iraq today. They were granted POW status by those bad and evil German dogs which says a lot about WHO actually had some knightly behavior. Anyway will not cry one tear for them. They could have easily waited for a liberation by the red communist hordes from the east. They were brave for sure but also plainly stupid. They died needlessly and for nothing.

But would you please provide me with some proof of all those so called executions by the Germans? And please, don´t use propaganda stuff from the Jaruszelsky era.
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Post by Musashi »

Gebirgsjaeger wrote:They could have easily waited for a liberation by the red communist hordes from the east. They were brave for sure but also plainly stupid. They died needlessly and for nothing.
They could have, but they wanted to liberate their city before the Soviets.
Gebirgsjaeger wrote:They didn´t surrender officially, ok your point. But Poland got it´s ass kicked in a mere three weeks. :-))
35 days divided by 7 is FIVE weeks. I hope also in Germany, or maybe you are not good at math? :shock:
Ah, your famous 1 Panzerjaegerdivision got also kicked its ass from Polish II Corps during the Battle of Monte Cassino and Herman-Goering Division got kicked ass from Polish 1st Armoured Brigade in Studzianki in 1944. Your pilots got their ass kicked from the Polish pilots terribly during the Battle of Britain in 1940. For example Polish 303rd fighter squadron had a kill ratio 9 to 1. None of the British squadrons achieved even a similar result.
Warsaw was defending 20 days in 1939. How long was Berlin defending in 1945? 10 days?
And don't forget who broke the Enigma code, mein Freund :D 8) How many so called Allied soldiers were saved and German ones killed due to that?
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Post by Gebirgsjaeger »

Musashi wrote: They could have, but they wanted to liberate their city before the Soviets.

35 days divided by 7 is FIVE weeks. I hope also in Germany, or maybe you are not good at math? :shock:
Ah, your famous 1 Panzerjaegerdivision got also kicked its ass from Polish II Corps during the Battle of Monte Cassino and Herman-Goering Division got kicked ass from Polish 1st Armoured Brigade in Studzianki in 1944.
1. I didn´t say the war was over after 3 weeks, but that after 3 weeks it was clear the Poles seriously got their butts kicked

2. In the hole German Wehrmacht or Waffen-SS there never existed a 1. Panzerjägerdivision!!!

3. Yes, the Poles are so glorious! Sadly when they had to defend THEIR country the kill ratio was a little bit different, wasn´t it?

4. And to show everyone HOW brave the Poles where just let us all remember the Bromberger Blutnacht (bloodnight). There is no excuse for it! It happened before Poland was occupied by Germany.

5. Concerning Monte Cassino: Why don´t you tell us about the x-times that the allies - inlcuding the Poles - got stuck there for so long and couldn´t achieve a victory. The famous and glorious 1. FALLSCHIRMJÄGERdivision pulled back in an orderly manner and the Poles never beat em.

8)
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Post by Panzer37 »

Gebirgsjaeger wrote:
5. Concerning Monte Cassino: Why don´t you tell us about the x-times that the allies - inlcuding the Poles - got stuck there for so long and couldn´t achieve a victory. The famous and glorious 1. FALLSCHIRMJÄGERdivision pulled back in an orderly manner and the Poles never beat em.
Yes, i understand that the Fallschirmjägern took defensive positions after the US bombings of the abbey. The bombing left the abbey as a good defensive place. The fight there was stubborn. They succeeded against several allied attempts to take the Abbey remnants. Finally, after a couple months, Alphonse Juin, who oposed frontal attacks in the Liri Valley from the begining was allowed to try a flanking manouver with his colonial troops. He did so succesfully, then the Germans knew that Gustav line would collpase, then all Germans withdrew to the North to another mountanous systme farther north. So, the Fallschirmjägern were not defeated by the attacking troops in front of them. They can be militarily proud of what they did there.

I think Poles can be proud of many things, they defeated the Russians in the 1920s. They were the first country to seriously challenge Soviet rule. I cant criticize them for being defeated in 3 to 5 weeks by the German blitzkrieg in 1939. But, i frankly cant understand, why an heroic nation which knows the sufferings of being ocupied, can participate in the ocupation of another country and also, how this ocupation will defeat terrorism. I dont mean we should allow terrorists to do what they want or leave them alone, but the humilliation of a country is only helping the terrorist cause.

my very cheap opinion. not worth 2 pesos, less than 2 US cents.

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Gebirgsjaeger
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Post by Gebirgsjaeger »

Hi Hector!

Very good statement, my congratulations!

GJ :D
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Post by Musashi »

Panzer37 wrote: I think Poles can be proud of many things, they defeated the Russians in the 1920s. They were the first country to seriously challenge Soviet rule. I cant criticize them for being defeated in 3 to 5 weeks by the German blitzkrieg in 1939. But, i frankly cant understand, why an heroic nation which knows the sufferings of being ocupied, can participate in the ocupation of another country and also, how this ocupation will defeat terrorism. I dont mean we should allow terrorists to do what they want or leave them alone, but the humilliation of a country is only helping the terrorist cause.
Amigo, lea esto http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... highlight=
Don't forget Spanish soldiers were also in the Polish zone in Iraq for a few months.
Polish soldiers are the stabilisation forces in Iraq. They don't have aircrafts, artillery, tanks or infantry fighting vehicles and they are much more liked than Americans there. As the coalition forces have already stepped in a sh** (they occupy Iraq) is it a good idea to leave this country for the terrorists? We will not stay in this country forever, we can withdraw at the Iraqi government's request, but they would prefered us staying (because they are too weak and need protection).
Muchos saludos desde Polonia y tenga un fin de semana agradable! :D
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Post by Panzer37 »

Hola Musashi

No, I am not Spaniard, I am Mexican. I dont mean that Polish have bad intentions in their idea of intervening in Poland. Poland did not participate in the conquering by the way. Now, Irak is weak because it was destroyed by a foreign country, so, yes, it now needs help. Things are very messed up now, so whatever good intention we all might have, it will be surely missunderstood and used against the western comunity. we have a saying in Mexico

no hagas cosas buenas que parescan malas.

(dont do good things that appear to be bad)

anyway, please, dont misunderstand me, i know that Mexico has his issues too. Even if we had participated, i would be against it. Also, I like Poland a lot. I respect the heroism of the Polish people. I understand Poland does not like to be weak again. They have nice Leopard 2 tanks now :-)

Sorry that i dont remember any Polish word now. I only know a phrase from a famous Polish singer (jestez moja nagroda) which, hehe, is not apropiate for the ocassion. hahaha

ah, i think you guys say Pan (señor) right?, saludos Pan Musashi.

Hector
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Post by Panzer37 »

Gebirgsjaeger wrote:Hi Hector!

Very good statement, my congratulations!

GJ :D
Danke sehr Kamerad. Ich versuche..ich versuche...
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