Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum and this is my first post.
I was hoping somebody could help point me in the right direction or outright tell me how much ammo each soldier carried into battle and how many hand grenades was issued to each. ie. how many rounds for the KAR98, how many clips for the MP 40, Stg44 etc.
Did Heer units carry the same 'load' as those in the Waffen SS?
Thank you in advance!
How much ammunition did each soldier carry?
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Christoph Awender
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Hello and welcome to the forum!
A K98 Schütze had two ammo puches with 45 rounds in clips each with 5 rounds. In combat he was additionally supplied with 15 rounds from the Gefechtswagen.
The groupleader with MPi. had 2 ammo puches with 6 magazines á 32 rounds.
Stg.44 4 magazines á 30 rounds.
Handgrenades were no standard issue of a rifle-group. The group determined a "thrower" which was equipped with an amount of grenades according to the task from company.
Why do you think the W-SS needed more ammo? The answer is no they had not more ammo with them.
\Christoph
A K98 Schütze had two ammo puches with 45 rounds in clips each with 5 rounds. In combat he was additionally supplied with 15 rounds from the Gefechtswagen.
The groupleader with MPi. had 2 ammo puches with 6 magazines á 32 rounds.
Stg.44 4 magazines á 30 rounds.
Handgrenades were no standard issue of a rifle-group. The group determined a "thrower" which was equipped with an amount of grenades according to the task from company.
Why do you think the W-SS needed more ammo? The answer is no they had not more ammo with them.
\Christoph
Christoph, thanks for the answer! It's very helpful.
As for the SS needing more ammo, it was not meant to imply that they couldn't shoot straight or anything to that effect (not saying you were implying that either
). I was thinking along the lines that since they were an elite unit I've been told that they usually got preferential treatment and also since they were used as fire brigades they might carry more since they were, more often than not, in the thick of fighting.
A quick question about the MP44, I've often seen pictures where they have 2 ammo pouches with what looks to be room for 3 clips on each side. Was a 4 clip configuration the standard?
As for the SS needing more ammo, it was not meant to imply that they couldn't shoot straight or anything to that effect (not saying you were implying that either
). I was thinking along the lines that since they were an elite unit I've been told that they usually got preferential treatment and also since they were used as fire brigades they might carry more since they were, more often than not, in the thick of fighting.A quick question about the MP44, I've often seen pictures where they have 2 ammo pouches with what looks to be room for 3 clips on each side. Was a 4 clip configuration the standard?
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Christoph Awender
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Panzer Mooyman
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How did the soldiers get new ammo in combat? It must run out once in a while. Was there some kind of 'runner', and were did he belong to? The rifle squad itself? And who gave the order to re-supply, the group leader or someone higher in command?
Also what kind of unit is de 'gefechtswagen'. I presume its a truck or armoured vehicle but how many soldiers were allocated to it and who commanded it?
I hope my english is understandable hehe. But im very interested in pre-battle actions. How, when and where orders were givin. What exactly did happen just before the soldiers went into battle.
Also what kind of unit is de 'gefechtswagen'. I presume its a truck or armoured vehicle but how many soldiers were allocated to it and who commanded it?
I hope my english is understandable hehe. But im very interested in pre-battle actions. How, when and where orders were givin. What exactly did happen just before the soldiers went into battle.
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Christoph Awender
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Hello!
I am slo very interested in these thinghs you mentioned and that is why I have all the Wehrmacht manuals.
The "Gefechtswagen" is depending on the type of unit a horse-drawn waggon (Hf1. for example), a truck etc..
I take the example of a "Schützenkompanie e KStN131e 1.2.1941"
You have the Kompanietrupp (HQ), Panzerabwehrbüchesentrupp )AT-riflre group), 3 platoons, Gefechtstross (equipment, ammo supply), Verpflegungstross (food supply) and Gepäcktross (luggage).
The Gefechtstross consists mainly of three Hf.1 horse-drawn coaches which carry the heavy equipment and additional ammo.
When the company goes into combat the soldiers will receive ammo from the "Gefechtswagen" of their platoon.
If the company is running low on ammo the commander will either send a messenger, radio call, light signal whatever to the battalion which will organize ammo from its stock or from any higher level (regiment) formation.
Have a look on this example KStN on my site:
http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn/kstn131e1feb41.htm
\Christoph
I am slo very interested in these thinghs you mentioned and that is why I have all the Wehrmacht manuals.
The "Gefechtswagen" is depending on the type of unit a horse-drawn waggon (Hf1. for example), a truck etc..
I take the example of a "Schützenkompanie e KStN131e 1.2.1941"
You have the Kompanietrupp (HQ), Panzerabwehrbüchesentrupp )AT-riflre group), 3 platoons, Gefechtstross (equipment, ammo supply), Verpflegungstross (food supply) and Gepäcktross (luggage).
The Gefechtstross consists mainly of three Hf.1 horse-drawn coaches which carry the heavy equipment and additional ammo.
When the company goes into combat the soldiers will receive ammo from the "Gefechtswagen" of their platoon.
If the company is running low on ammo the commander will either send a messenger, radio call, light signal whatever to the battalion which will organize ammo from its stock or from any higher level (regiment) formation.
Have a look on this example KStN on my site:
http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn/kstn131e1feb41.htm
\Christoph
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Paul Lakowski
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Thanks thats great. It just reinforces the notion that the bulk of the germans had WW-I level mobility ,contray to what many people seem to want to believe.Christoph Awender wrote:Hello!
I am slo very interested in these thinghs you mentioned and that is why I have all the Wehrmacht manuals.
The "Gefechtswagen" is depending on the type of unit a horse-drawn waggon (Hf1. for example), a truck etc..
I take the example of a "Schützenkompanie e KStN131e 1.2.1941"
You have the Kompanietrupp (HQ), Panzerabwehrbüchesentrupp )AT-riflre group), 3 platoons, Gefechtstross (equipment, ammo supply), Verpflegungstross (food supply) and Gepäcktross (luggage).
The Gefechtstross consists mainly of three Hf.1 horse-drawn coaches which carry the heavy equipment and additional ammo.
When the company goes into combat the soldiers will receive ammo from the "Gefechtswagen" of their platoon.
If the company is running low on ammo the commander will either send a messenger, radio call, light signal whatever to the battalion which will organize ammo from its stock or from any higher level (regiment) formation.
Have a look on this example KStN on my site:
http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn/kstn131e1feb41.htm
\Christoph
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Panzer Mooyman
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Paul Lakowski
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Christoph Awender
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Hello!
Usual practice was that at this level food, ammo was not delivered but picked up (hope this sounds english :-) )
So the food is picked up by a member of each group ~ 10 men.
The ammo was also picked up at the place where the Gefechtswagen was. This was either with the rest of the company HQ or with each platon seperate depending on the combat situation.
If a group or platoon needs ammo he will determine soldiers (often messengers) to get supply.
\Christoph
Usual practice was that at this level food, ammo was not delivered but picked up (hope this sounds english :-) )
So the food is picked up by a member of each group ~ 10 men.
The ammo was also picked up at the place where the Gefechtswagen was. This was either with the rest of the company HQ or with each platon seperate depending on the combat situation.
If a group or platoon needs ammo he will determine soldiers (often messengers) to get supply.
\Christoph
K98 ammo pouches
Hi,
You have stated 45 round in each set. I have read that in WWII each set had 3 compartments holding two 5 round clips thus 30 rounds each set.
Q; was there a standard pouch ?
Q; was there a 30 round pouch ?
I have recently seen a picture ( a book The German Soldier ) of Lanser in Italy who had what looked like leather pouches of a single variety, one either side of the buckle.
Q; any one know of this ?
Dan
You have stated 45 round in each set. I have read that in WWII each set had 3 compartments holding two 5 round clips thus 30 rounds each set.
Q; was there a standard pouch ?
Q; was there a 30 round pouch ?
I have recently seen a picture ( a book The German Soldier ) of Lanser in Italy who had what looked like leather pouches of a single variety, one either side of the buckle.
Q; any one know of this ?
Dan
There was a standard pouch for each weapon (98k, MP40, G43, StG44)
As you said the standard 98k pouch had 3 compartments at 2 clips with 5 rounds each (3x2x5 =30 round/pouch) . Always two pouches to the soldier gives a capacity of 60 - not counting the 5 rounds in the rifle itself (or extra clips carried in pockets).
As you said the standard 98k pouch had 3 compartments at 2 clips with 5 rounds each (3x2x5 =30 round/pouch) . Always two pouches to the soldier gives a capacity of 60 - not counting the 5 rounds in the rifle itself (or extra clips carried in pockets).
Well, Dan, let me see if I can answer you ...
The standard cartridge pouch was the M1911, called by the Germans the "Patronentasche 11". Each of the three pockets held two five-shot clips of ammunition for the Mauser Kar98k rifle. That makes for thrity rounds on each side of the soldier's belt-buckle, when he wore two M1911 pouches.
The earlier M1909 held three five-shot clips in each pocket, and was the standard for dismounted troops from before WWI through 1933, when the M1911, previously for mounted troops only, was adopted army-wide for everyone.
Hmmmm ... sounds like your soldier in Italy was issued with a non-standard rifle, not a Mauser of any kind. An Italian Mannlicher-Carcano, perhaps?
Yours,
Paul
The standard cartridge pouch was the M1911, called by the Germans the "Patronentasche 11". Each of the three pockets held two five-shot clips of ammunition for the Mauser Kar98k rifle. That makes for thrity rounds on each side of the soldier's belt-buckle, when he wore two M1911 pouches.
The earlier M1909 held three five-shot clips in each pocket, and was the standard for dismounted troops from before WWI through 1933, when the M1911, previously for mounted troops only, was adopted army-wide for everyone.
Hmmmm ... sounds like your soldier in Italy was issued with a non-standard rifle, not a Mauser of any kind. An Italian Mannlicher-Carcano, perhaps?
Yours,
Paul
POUCHES
Paul,
The picture of the troops in Italy does not show any rifles as they are slung and obscured from view but the pouches are more like the old British leather equipment circa WWI.
Maybe they are Rumanian or Bulgarian ?
Dan
The picture of the troops in Italy does not show any rifles as they are slung and obscured from view but the pouches are more like the old British leather equipment circa WWI.
Maybe they are Rumanian or Bulgarian ?
Dan