The forgotten tank

German weapons, vehicles and equipment 1919-1945.

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Sebastian Pye
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The forgotten tank

Post by Sebastian Pye » Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:01 am

When people talk about german tanks in ww2 they mostly think about the tiger, panther, panzer IV and the tankdestroyers.

Most people dont know so much about the pz38(t) other than that it was used in france in 1940 and that the hetzer tankdestroyer was based on its chassi.

However, the pz38(t) and the many vehicles based on the chassi was a significant and important part of the german warmachine.
Look at these figures:

Pz 38(t):

1411 produced (+ those captured when germany invaded czechoslovakia)

Panzerjäger 38(t):

1561

15 cm infgeschütz, (Grille):

372

Bergepanzers:

64

reconvehicles:

50

flakpanzers:

140

munitionpanzers:

102

finally 2584 hetzers produced from April 1944-May 1945!!!! Quite amazing actually.

Source: Encyclopedia of german tanks and AFV´s in world war 2

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Post by derGespenst » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:31 pm

You make very good points, but the main one is not that the Pz 38t was such a great tank (it was for its time - 1938-1940) but that the Germans were amazing in their adaptability and resourcefulness, managing to keep an obsolete vehicle useful and productive for so long. It's tough to fight a war on a poor man's budget.

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Post by Paul Hanson » Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:08 pm

I have to disagree somewhat with you comment about adapting an obsolete tank. The figure about the Grille and Panzerjäger 38(t) are misleading in that respect. The early Grille and Panzerjäger 38(t) were just conversions on the original chassis. Later versions with the setback guns and redesigned superstructure were also redesigned automotively. The engine, originally in the rear, was moved to the front to allow lower and more accessible fighting compartment. Also during production the engine were redesigned and upgraded.

As for the Hetzer, it was a totally new vehicle using only components of the 38(t) series.

It was not using an obsolete tank on a poor man's budget. It was, as you indeed said, a good tank in 1939-1940. But once it was outclassed as a battle tank the German reused the chassis and basic design for a multitude of variants and one new design because, fundamentally, it was a technically well designed vehicle on par with or exceeding the equivalent German and Allied vehicles. Look at the numbers, more than twice as many chassis were produced for varients as for the MBT, assuming some were reworked MBT chassis and not counting the new Hetzer design.

PH

PH

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KampfgruppeMeyer
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Post by KampfgruppeMeyer » Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:45 pm

Mr. Hansosn, you are correct. i also believe that the this tank was very battefield surviveable and if used correctly, it was still a real threat even later in the war.
Meine Ehre Heisst Treue...

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Post by Paul Hanson » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:00 pm

I do not know if would class it as battlefeld-survivable tank in 1944-1945; but it was a good, adapable tank chassis. And the German obviously thought the same.

The Czechs designed a fundimentaly sound AFV in 1933-36 and it's deriatives did very well in the 1940-1945 era.

PH

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Post by sid guttridge » Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:05 am

Hi Guys,

I think much of the credit for the development of the PzKpfw.38t during the war also belongs to Czech engineers, who became the unsung junior members of the various Protectorate design bureaux when the Germans took over. One thing is for sure - it was an almost completely Czech labour force that built them.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Panzer 38(t)

Post by Paul Hanson » Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:05 pm

Sebastian;

One other thing that I did not mention in my post: forgotten tank? You obviously have not been looking at any of the discussion groups on WWII AFV's. The 38(t) shows up constantly on these boards as to which kit is best, how to fix the Italeri kit, how to fix the Marder III, etc, etc, etc(as the King would say). Maybe the "serious" historians are forgetting this tank but the AFV modeler sure hasn't.

PH

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Post by Sebastian Pye » Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:40 am

I meant more in general, most people on this forum probably know more about the t38 than I do

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Re: The forgotten tank

Post by tigre » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:49 am

Hello to all :D; after a while a little complement..............

Pz Abt. 67 (3. Le Div) - Poland 1939.

Source: on the picture.

Cheers. Raúl M 8).
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Serás lo que debas ser o no serás nada. General José de San Martín.

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tigre
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Re: The forgotten tank

Post by tigre » Sat May 23, 2015 7:48 pm

Hello to all :D; something more..............

Pz Abt. 67 (3. Le Div) - Poland 1939.

Source: http://odkrywca.pl/panzer-1939-czesc-13 ... tml#713626.

Cheers. Raúl M 8).
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Our tanks are preparing for a new attack................
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Tanks to the front............................
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Serás lo que debas ser o no serás nada. General José de San Martín.

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tigre
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Re: The forgotten tank

Post by tigre » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:50 pm

Hello to all :D; something more..............

Eastern Front 1941!.

Source: http://www.tankograd.com/cms/website.ph ... zer-38.htm#.

Cheers. Raúl M 8).
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Typical scene from the campaign, tank columns fighting with the routes into Russia ..............................
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image025.jpg
Crossing a river on the road to Leningrad.........
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Serás lo que debas ser o no serás nada. General José de San Martín.

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tigre
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Re: The forgotten tank

Post by tigre » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:41 am

Hello to all :D; something more..............

Pz Abt. 67 (3. Le Div) - Poland 1939.

Source: http://odkrywca.pl/panzer-1939-czesc-12,701119.html.

Cheers. Raúl M 8).
Attachments
image019.jpg
A Pz kw 38 (t) going in reverse gear to avoid the soft ground, while the crew helps the driver.......................
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Serás lo que debas ser o no serás nada. General José de San Martín.

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tigre
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Re: The forgotten tank

Post by tigre » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:41 pm

Hello to all :D; something more..............

Eastern Front - June 1941!.

Source: Bundesarchiv Bild 101I-265-0028-03A, Wilna, Einmarsch deutscher Truppen.jpg.

Cheers. Raúl M 8).
Attachments
image001.jpg
German troops (7. Pz or 20. Pz) through the streets of Vilnius; in the background tanks Pz Kw 38 (t) towing a drum with reserve fuel..............................
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Serás lo que debas ser o no serás nada. General José de San Martín.

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tigre
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Re: The forgotten tank

Post by tigre » Tue May 10, 2016 6:17 pm

Hello to all :D; something more..............

Fall Gelb - May 1940!

Source: Deut Photo. Panzer mit Nr. 621 in verstopfter Vormarschstr. Frankreich Belgien. eBay Auction.

Cheers. Raúl M 8).
Attachments
image004.png
A Pz Kw 38 (t) No. 621 blocking a congested route of advance - Belgium/France 1940 ..............................
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Serás lo que debas ser o no serás nada. General José de San Martín.

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tigre
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Re: The forgotten tank

Post by tigre » Sun May 22, 2016 7:37 am

Hello to all :D; something more..............

Poland 1939!

Source: Janusz Ledwoch, Panzer 38 (t) vz.38 LT, Wydawnictwo Militaria, Warszawa 1993.

Cheers. Raúl M 8).
Attachments
image062.jpg
Pz Kw 38 (t) No. 322 with the impact of a projectile right on the white cross in the turret ............................
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Serás lo que debas ser o no serás nada. General José de San Martín.

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