Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

German weapons, vehicles and equipment 1919-1945.

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Klaus_Arzt
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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by Klaus_Arzt » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:46 am

Rui Esteves wrote:
Do anyone knows, which units used the Panzerjäger Bren and where they saw combat?
Hello Rui Esteves! Here's some info i found in the web - Panzerjäger Bren vehicles were used in 3. Panzergrenadier Division. and answering your second question - their areas of engagement: France (Mar 1943 - June 1943),Italy (June 1943 - Aug 1944),France (Aug 1944 - Nov 1944),Western Germany (Nov 1944 - Dec 1944),Ardennes, Germany & Ruhr pocket (Dec 1944 - Apr 1945).

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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by Klaus_Arzt » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:56 am

speaking of Panzerschrecks, a good example of their transportation
panzerschreck.jpg
panzerschreck.jpg (18.21 KiB) Viewed 4844 times
If all Panzerschrecks had been placed in one direction i would have thought it was some kind of Ersatzrocketluncher, that could be lethal not only for the enemies but also for the crew operating it. :D
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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by Klaus_Arzt » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:09 am

28 Wurfrahmen (Sf) based on the Renault UE and 28 Wurfrahmen (Sf) based on the Hotchkiss H39:
H39 0001.jpg
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H39 0002.jpg
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All the best :D
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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by afrika.90light » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:25 pm

While the 4 Panzer Div. didn't have any Panzerwerfers, any chance or records of them supporting the 4th. I play the 4th in Flames of War and would love to play them if realistic. I could just play them legally but like to play my units historically. Would prefer to model a panzerwerfer unit that was really there. Thanks in advance.
Happy Trails
William

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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by Rui Esteves » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:22 am

These prevoius photos, appears on Werner Regenberg & Horst Scheibert, Captured French Tanks under the German Flag, Schiffer Publishing.
They are 28/32 cm Wurfrahmen (Sf) auf PzKpfw 39H (f) / auf Infanterie-Schlepper UE (f), based on the Hotchkiss H39 / Renault UE.

And according to Regenberg / Scheibert, the Panzer Abteilung 205 were equipped with 11 Hotchkiss H39 tanks with the 4-launcher frames of 28/32 cm rockets.


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Rui Esteves
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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by Rui Esteves » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:23 am

According to Zetterling "Normandy 1944", there were Panzerwerfers in the following units at Normandy in 1944:

Werfer Brigade 7
I./Werfer-Regiment 84, had 7 Panzerwerfer
II./Werfer-Regiment 84, had 7 Panzerwerfer plus 1 Panzerwerfer in workshops.

Werfer Brigade 8
Werfer-Lehr-Regiment 1, had 2 Panzerwerfer batteries
schweres Werfer-Regiment 2, had 1 Panzerwerfer battery

Werfer Brigade 9
Werfer-Regiment 14, had 1 Panzerwerfer battery
Werfer-Regiment 54, had 1 Panzerwerfer battery and 1 additional battery with self-propelled, but non-armored Werfers
( probably the "non-armored self-propelled Werfers" were (Pz.) batteries redesignated as (Sf.) batteries )


(the edit, correct some typos)


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Rui Esteves
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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by Rui Esteves » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:57 am

The 15 cm Panzerwerfer 42 batteries used the K.St.N. 633.

K.St.N. 633 - Wfr. Battr. (Sfl) 15cm Nbl.W. - 01.10.44
1.Zug with 4 x 15cm Panzerwerfer 42 (15cm Nebelwerfer-Zehnling 42 auf Panzerwerfer (Sd.Kfz. 4/1))
2.Zug with 4 x 15cm Panzerwerfer 42 (15cm Nebelwerfer-Zehnling 42 auf Panzerwerfer (Sd.Kfz. 4/1))
Munitionsstaffel with 4 x Gleisketten-Lastkraftwagen 3t, gp. (Sd.Kfz.4/1)


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Rui Esteves

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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by Rui Esteves » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:59 pm

According to Dr. Leo Niehorster, there was 3 K.St.N. that had the 15cm Panzerwerfer 42:

K.St.N. 633 - Battr. 15 cm Pz. Wrf. 42 - 15.02.43 (Behelf)
K.St.N. 633 - Battr. 15 cm Pz. Wrf. 42 - 01.11.43
K.St.N. 633 - Wfr. Battr. (Sfl) 15cm Nbl.W. - 01.10.44


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Rui Esteves
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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by afrika.90light » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:07 pm

Hi Rui,
Thank You for your response. I forget what something means,K.ST.N. So if I'm reading this correctly, in 44 this unit had 4 self propelled launchers each in 2 squads and 4 munition haulers. Any idea how these would have been numbered? I've seen some with letters. As I model and paint this, unit any suggestions for the paint job ie. camo and other fine points. How about uniforms?
Thanks again.
William

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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by Rui Esteves » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:45 pm

Hi William,

the K.St.N. or Kriegsstärkenachweisung is a theoretical organization of a unit, in men and equipment, each kind of unit had his specific K.St.N. In this document, is shown the number and the type of weapons, vehicles, trailers, horses, men, etc, inside the unit. During the war, some K.St.N. were modified, in his composition and new ones were created with the appearance of new weapons.
Rui Esteves wrote:The 15 cm Panzerwerfer 42 batteries used the K.St.N. 633.

K.St.N. 633 - Wfr. Battr. (Sfl) 15cm Nbl.W. - 01.10.44 (K.St.N. number - Name of K.St.N. - Official issue date)
1.Zug with 4 x 15cm Panzerwerfer 42 (15cm Nebelwerfer-Zehnling 42 auf Panzerwerfer (Sd.Kfz. 4/1))
2.Zug with 4 x 15cm Panzerwerfer 42 (15cm Nebelwerfer-Zehnling 42 auf Panzerwerfer (Sd.Kfz. 4/1))
Munitionsstaffel with 4 x Gleisketten-Lastkraftwagen 3t, gp. (Sd.Kfz.4/1)
The K.St.N. 633 explained:
1st Platoon with 4 x 15cm Panzerwerfer 42 (15cm Nebelwerfer-Zehnling 42 auf Panzerwerfer (Sd.Kfz. 4/1)) - Rocket Launchers
2nd Platoon with 4 x 15cm Panzerwerfer 42 (15cm Nebelwerfer-Zehnling 42 auf Panzerwerfer (Sd.Kfz. 4/1)) - Rocket Launchers
Ammunition squadron with 4 x Gleisketten-Lastkraftwagen 3t, gp. (Sd.Kfz.4/1) - Ammunition armored 3-ton half-track trucks

Total in each 15cm Panzerwerfer 42 battery = 8 x 15cm Panzerwerfer 42 and 4 x Gleisketten-Lastkraftwagen 3t, gp..


These batteries were part of the Werfer-Regiments, the batteries were formed starting at 1943 and some Regiments at the beginning had 1 or 2 batteries, later Werfer-Brigades were formed with 2 regiments. AFAIK, 15-cm Panzerwerfer 42 rocket launchers, were only in the Heer (Army), the Waffen-SS had his own self-propelled rocket launcher, the 8 cm Raketen Vielfachwerfer auf Fahrgestell Maultier, based on the Opel Maultier.


For example, the Werfer-Regiment 54, in May 5, 1943, the 21. (Pz.) and 22. (Pz.) Batteries were attached, according to Niehorster the Werfer-Regiment 54 had in July 4, 43, I., II. and, III. Abteilungen with three batteries of 15cm rockets each; 21. and 22. Batterien equipped with self-propelled 15cm rocket launchers. {The second digit of the (Pz.) Batterie, shows to which battalion (Abteilung) it belonged inside the regiment). In March 1944 21. (Pz.) and 22. (Pz.) were redesignated 21. (Sf.) and 22. (Sf.) Batterie].

So far, I only saw 15cm Panzerwerfers with a letter marking in his armored body, identifying the position of the vehicle inside the battery, A (1st vehicle), B (2nd vehicle), C (3rd vehicle), D (4th vehicle). Unfortunately, I can't help in the matter of the camouflage or the painting in the vehicles (this isn't my strong area :[] ). The Werfer soldiers, I suppose, had artillery uniforms.



Best regards,

Rui Esteves
"In the fog of History, there is sometimes a Light" - Rui Esteves

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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by Martin Block » Fri May 01, 2009 4:33 am

If I'm allowed to add a small remark here regarding the just mentioned Werfer-Rgt. 54:
Things were a bit more complicated. Although authorized to have 2 Pz.Werfer-Batteries since early April 1943 these were not actually present with the regiment in July 1943. In the end only one actually joined the regiment at the end of September 1943:

Formation of 21. and 22.(Pz.)/Werfer-Regiment 54 ordered 3.4.1943
Combat readiness for both batteries was to be achieved until 15.6.1943
This was delayed because of production shortages and a new date was set to 15.8.1943 at the earliest
On 28.8.1943 the combat ready 22./54 was renamed to 21.(Pz.)/Wf.Rgt. 71
21./54 finally reported combat readiness on 23.9.1943 and received orders to join Werfer-Rgt. 54.
Orders to form a new 22./54 and additionally a 23./54 until 31.1.1944 were issued on 13.12.1943.
But on 14.1.1944 the 22./54 was assigned to Werfer-Rgt. 82 and renamed to 21./82 or 22./82 (couldn't find out exactly).
On the same day the order to form the 23./54 was cancelled.

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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by afrika.90light » Fri May 01, 2009 3:55 pm

Hi Rui,
First thanks to all.
So I will be modeling K.ST.N. 633. In the game I'm allowed 2 sec' s of 4 launchers each, so that fits great. I also get a hauptmann HQ section with kfz 15 field car and a anti tank sec of either PaK 38 or PaK 40 and Sd Kfz 11. The observer teams get kubelwagons. Does this fit. I assume, in essence, the munition carriers are panzerwerfers without launchers.
Thanks again.
William

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Re: Forgotten Artillerie - The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread

Post by tigre » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:20 am

Hello to all :D; a little complement........................................

15 cm Nebelwerfer 41.

Battery fire !!! .................

Source: https://www.delcampe.net/de/sammlerobje ... 54737.html

Cheers. Raul M 8).
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