Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

German weapons, vehicles and equipment 1919-1945.

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Commissar D, the Evil
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Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:45 pm

So Piet, we can count on you as a guide?????!!!!!!! :up: :up: :up: :wink:

This is something we have to do for the United Peoples of the Soviet Feldgrau!!!!:up: Not for our own selfishness.

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David
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Post by Tom Houlihan » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:51 pm

Piet Duits wrote:His basement actually is big enough. And not only that, it is also organized!
:up: :evil: :up:
Who's bringing scanners? Small photocopiers? Laptop to download digicam images?

I wonder if he'll be surprised??
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Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:54 pm

AK-47s tend to suppress exclamations of surprise..............


Bestens,
David
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....

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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Hans Weber » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:12 am

Hello Martin

Tremendous compilation on the 250/9.

As a "sideproduct" on my trail to hunt down Pumas, I can add a piece of trivia from OKW Waffenamt:

The 7 Sdkfz 250/9 delivered to 9. SS H in November 1944 were all 250/9. They brought the unit again to full strenght with 16 x 250/9, the Beob. Pz. were however missing, only 3 x 250/5 and 2 x 250/3 standing in for 9 250/5 authorized. Such a strong Caesar Company at this stage on this front is quite exceptional.

Not until I had spoken with Manfred Coblenz (former CO of 2./SS-AA 1) another enigma was solved. There are some odd 2cm KwK's found in the November and December 1944 Gliederung. Now as you said, they never got their 250/9, but they got their nine 250/5. Not content with the situation, they mounted 2cm guns themselves on top of the halftracks, not in a turret, but very much like mounting a MG on it as Coblenz put it. As Timo once told me, when in Belgium in Spring 1944, they integrated their inofficial 2cm Flak Zug (with 6 2cm Flak pieces) into their type c Company. So combining both pieces of information we end up with as much as 6 x 250/5 armed with makeshift 2cm Flak guns...

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Hans

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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Martin Block » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:01 pm

Two very nice pieces of information, thanks for sharing Hans! I was especially surprised to hear about those makeshift 'Caesarwagen' created from the 250/5s. Well, those field workshops had some ideas - reminds me of another possible makeshift recce vehicle that was discussed elsewhere on this forum not that long ago :wink:

Martin Block

P.S.: Hans, we better be more careful. This is the second thread in short time in which we both post together. If we carry on this way we might cause the Evil Commissar a heartattack :D :beer:

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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Tom Houlihan » Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:31 pm

Martin Block wrote:P.S.: Hans, we better be more careful. This is the second thread in short time in which we both post together. If we carry on this way we might cause the Evil Commissar a heartattack :D :beer:
Or worse, bring him joy! Either option could be hazardous to that one!

Hans, that's an excellent bit on the improvised vehicles. That would probably never be found in proper reference book! Thanks for that!
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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:44 pm

AH! MY HEART................!!!!!

(Grasps chest and falls to the ground..............)

"MEDICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Col. Valery Sonovovich screams. The men of the Guards Tank Corps gather around the fallen Commissar, not knowing whether to grieve or cheer.

~D, the EviL
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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Hans Weber » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:58 pm

Aw, too late!

Tom, chances are that this information will be found in the upcoming Heimdal volume on LAH, so keep your eyes open.

Martin, I think of the Wolpertinger article (234 marrying a Lynx turret) in a recent German military modeller's mag. Incidentally, I just browsed the local news shop yesterday and what did I see: our renowed military historian Martin Block is the headliner! :up: :beer:

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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:14 am

A Headliner? Do tell. Please. Please. Please. Please. (The Commissar gasps before lapsing into unconsciousness.)

~D
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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Hans Weber » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:59 am

Hello Dave

Can you hear me? Comrades, take away the defibrilator. The Commissar has regained some senses, it seems.

http://www.kit-modelljournal.de/html/mi ... odell.html

Our Martin figures proinently in the article about the 234 conversion. It's based on two pictures in a recent Panzerwrecks (argh, don't shot me Lee if it's wrong, I think it's Number 3?) and Martin ID-ed the unit.

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Hans

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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Martin Block » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:30 am

That damn thing will probably haunt me for the rest of my life - but at least it 'officially' turned me into a "renowned military historian" now by whomever authority :D :D :D . Yes, I couldn't believe my weary eyes but they actually quote me as "renommierter Militärhistoriker" in that article 8) .

My unit ID for that thing is actually just an educated guess and I made that clear in the caption to those pictures in Panzerwrecks 4. The day may come when someone comes up with the real story behind that vehicle and the "renowned military historian" goes down the drain again :shock: .

But until that happens you common people out there better think about addressing me as "Herr Block" from now on :wink: :beer: :wink:

Martin "R.M.H." Block

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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:56 am

"Oh Dear!" The Commissar whispered as he drifted in and out of consciusness. "I...I had a dream that there was a new 234 variant". He clutched at Colonel Sonovovich's tunic, pulling him closer. "An odd turret.........found by the renowned historian Martin Block...."
Colonel Sonovich pried his hand away from the cloth of the jacket. "There, there Commissar---stretcher bearer!!!"
"But..." The Commissar gasped, ....what about the Thread???"

~D
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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:50 pm

Well Folks, my mentor, the Commissar may indeed be out of it, but I, for one, shudder to think what will happen when he awakens and finds a new Sd. Kfz. 234 variant with this odd turret! Of all things to pop up after the lengthy debate on the Schwebelafette on the 234 Thread!

I have to say that the only word in the English language that describes the study of German Armored Vehicles in WWII appears to be "bizarre"!

Geesh, I can only envision a thread speculating on where the chassis and turret of this particular vehicle came form...... :roll: :roll: :roll:

There is, however, one silver lining to all of this--not only do we have the wonderful Hans Weber working on the issue, but we also have the "renowned historian", Martin Block to explain it all! :D :wink: :D

Sorry Martin, I couldn't resist that, besides, it....amuses me....that, after all of your efforts, including thousands of posts and many, many friendly and informative replies on the web, that you would win a gracious title in a military modeling mag. Not to say that you don't deserve it--Hell us Forum Heroes would have voted you the title without even seeing the model!!!!

Let it be said that Martin Block and Hans Weber deserve all of the praise that any Feldgrauian could ever imagine--for their selflessness, honesty and charitability!!!! You are both the finest fellows and I do hope that , one day, we will meet in real life. So carry on! Even if you wreck the Commissar's rather limited understanding of German armored variants!!!

http://www.kit-modelljournal.de/html/mi ... odell.html

My personal opinion,by the way , is that, being himself an evil genius. Adolf Hitler encouraged these modifications to keep us future amateur historians perplexed for the next century and a half.......

Very Best Regards, My Friends!!!

David
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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:29 pm

"He keeps talking about circles", the doctor said. "His physical problems are not anything to worry about." Colonel Sonovovich listened intently.
"Well, you have exactly a week to return him to service--the Guards Tank Corps is on the move!" The Colonel declared emphatically.
"But he keeps talking about circles--something about turret ring diameters! Does this make any sense to you?"
"A week!" Colonel Sonovovich insisted. "You figure it out! That's what you're paid for!" The Colonel walked away from the doctor with a parting shrug and sneer.

~D
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Re: Forgotten AFVs--The Official Sd. Kfz. 250/9 Thread!

Post by Tom Houlihan » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:38 pm

Only David could work the Forum Heroes into a legitimate research thread... :[]
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