Hornissen

[Hans]

Were Hornissen anti tank weapons?

Thanks in advance.

- Hans

[Christoph Awender]

Hello

The Hornisse was a Panzerjäger with a Pak43 on a Panzer III or IV chassis. After the initial production the type was renamed Nashorn with minor differences at the front plate and gun.
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz2.htm

\Christoph

[Hans]

Thanks Christoph.

- Hans

[Commissar D, the Evil]

Hans, to add to what Christoph says, Hornisse/Nashorn were grouped into units of Scwhere Panzerjager Abt. Their sole purpose was to kill enemy tanks.

Best,
~D, the EviL

[Hans]

Thanks. I had not come across them in my research prior to late 1943, therefore I'm guessing that that's when they first came on to the scene.

- Hans

[Hans]

Just checked Christophs reference - should have done it first - 1943 is right.

- Hans

[LV]

Hello

The Hornisse was a Panzerjäger with a Pak43 on a Panzer III or IV chassis. After the initial production the type was renamed Nashorn with minor differences at the front plate and gun.
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz2.htm

\Christoph

Well, actually the chassis was that of Geschützwagen III/IV, incorporating components from both Pz III and IV. All the vehicles were armed with the same gun: 8.8 cm Pak 43/1 (L/71). The renaming from Hornisse to Nashorn took place in early 1944 and had nothing to do with any kind of alterations. To me it still remains a mystery what these minor differences to the "gun and front plate" were, because the gun atleast remained the same throughout the vehicles career. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz2.htm is somewhat unreliable when it comes to Nashorn.

[Paulus II]

It's not so much that the III/IV chassis incorporated parts of both Pz III and IV but more that it was a Pz IV chassis with the engine, drive train and some other parts of a Pz III.
I once read somewhere (not a clue where, long time ago) that the name Hornisse was changed to Nashorn because insectnames were only to be used for self-propelled artillery. There already were: Wespe (wasp), Hummel (bumblebee) and Grille (cricket) so a Hornisse (hornet) as a tank killer didn't really fit.
The other large tank killer then in service was the Elefant, so it was decided that this tank-killer should also be called after one of the pachyderms (Nashorn = rhinoceros) even though it had anything but a thick skin.
The unsatisfactory thing about this explanation is that the Grille was formerly known as the Bison (not just the Pz38 chassis but also the sIG 33 on Pz I, II and III chassis) and that many books claim that the name 'Grille' was never the official name for these vehicles but an end-of/postwar allied invention. Like happened with the so-called 'Hetzer'.
As for changing the name because the front of the vehicle was changed, the front of the Hummel was changed too and that never got it a name-change!
Well the above is some stuff coming from various books, now I wonder what the REAL story is

Cheers,

Paul

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

The unsatisfactory thing about this explanation is that the Grille was formerly known as the Bison (not just the Pz38 chassis but also the sIG 33 on Pz I, II and III chassis) and that many books claim that the name 'Grille' was never the official name for these vehicles but an end-of/postwar allied invention.

Evidence has been found of the name Grille in war-time German documents. On the other hand, the name Bison was never used.

[Paulus II]

Evidence has been found of the name Grille in war-time German documents. On the other hand, the name Bison was never used.

So much for some books then.

regards,

Paul

[tigre]

Hello to all ; a little complement.............................

Panzerjäger Hornisse - Nashorn / Sd. Kfz. 164!

Although what says in the source, I think is a Hornisse isn't it?

Source: Or.TOP TOP 131 Turmnummer Photo Hummel mit Panzer Tank Rückseite beschriftet. eBay Auction.

Cheers. Raul M .