The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

German weapons, vehicles and equipment 1919-1945.

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Martin Block
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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Martin Block » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:03 pm

The report from 30.12.1944 does list 12 le.Pz.Sp.Wg. 2 cm (i.e. Sd.Kfz. 222) and 9 le.Sp.Wg. MG (i.e. Sd.Kfz. 223) for a total of 21 vehicles. I do not know if, when and from where perhaps any additional vehicles might have come from, nor do I know if it perhaps may be even just a simple miscalculation or transcription error during preparation of the documents. This probably can only be finally solved if someday a detailed vehicle status report filed by Pz.A.A. 3 itself may surface somewhere.
Such small discrepancies in weapons and vehicles and are commonplace in the monthly status reports of basically all units and probably are inherent to the preparation of such complex documents in times of combat.

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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Kelvin » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:26 pm

Hello, Martin, thank for your reply. 14 x 2 cm cannon symbol appeared not only on Dec 1 1944 but also on Nov 1 1944. Your guetss may be right, some additional vehicles added to their stab kompanie.

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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Kelvin » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:40 am

Hello, Martin, I have two divisions Panzerspahwagen data need your Dec 30 1944 document help :

26. Pz Division still had 7 x 222 and 4 x 232 and 7 Pz division still had 2 x 222 on that day ?


I'll appreciate if you could tell me my data is accurate or not ? Thank.

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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Kelvin » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:00 am

Kelvin wrote:Hello, Martin, I have two divisions Panzerspahwagen data need your Dec 30 1944 document help :

26. Pz Division still had 7 x 222 and 4 x 232 and 7 Pz division still had 2 x 222 on that day ?


I'll appreciate if you could tell me my data is accurate or not ? Thank.
My quoted data is a little bit wrong : Correct is below :

26. Panzer division still had 4 x 222, 3 x 223 and 4 x 232 on Dec 30 1944 ?

And 7. Pz division still had 2 x 222 and 8 x 223 on Dec 30 1944 ?

And 24. Pz division still had 4 x 232, 3 x 222 and 1 x 221 on that day ?

Hope you could help on that.

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Commissar D, the Evil
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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:35 pm

I've read differing sources, so I have to ask this question: How many men made up the crew of an Sd. Kfz. 234/4?

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~D
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....

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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Kelvin » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:30 pm

4 crew

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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:41 am

So, Kelvin, where was the commander's position?

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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Tom Houlihan » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:43 pm

http://www.theeasternfront.co.uk/Vehicl ... edcars.htm

Crew: 4, commander, gunner, radio operator and driver.

So, I wonder if the Funker also drove it backwards?
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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Martin Block » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:10 am

Yes he did Tom. If for instance you look at K.St.N. 1162 d v. 1.3.1944 in addition to the main driver the radio operator is also listed as 'zugleich Kraftwagenfahrer für gepanzerte Kfz.'

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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Tom Houlihan » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:53 am

Thanks, Martin!
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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:04 pm

Okay guiys, but if you look at the plans for the Sd. Kfz. 234/4, you won't find a seat for the vehicle commander! So, where did he hang out? (no pun intended.)

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David
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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Tom Houlihan » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:30 pm

what image are you looking at, David?
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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:48 am

Hi Tom, I'm working off of plans that were published in a magazine several years ago as well as interior photographs. The reason I asked the question is because any interior view will show that, due to the size of the long 75mm gun and the need to provide a station for the gunner, the fighting compartment is really small in terms of usable space and I've never seen or heard mention of a Commander's seat in any of the publications and plans that I have.

Now it's possible that he simply stood in the left rear of the fighting compartment, or it is possible that the Commander substituted as the gunner--hence the difference in crew numbers in some references. Some say 3 crew members, others say 4 crew members. Add that discrepancy to the lack of a clearly defined commander's station and you'll see why I asked the question.

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~D
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....

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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:55 pm

Hi Folks,
I explained to Tom in a PM that I was uncertain of the crew number for the Sd. Kfz. for three reasons:

A. The number of crew varies from 3 to 4 depending on your source.
B. I couldn't find either a Commander's seat or a gunner's seat in any plan or photo.
C. In the earlier series of 8 wheeled armored cars, the Sd. Kfz. 231 series, when the short-barreled L/24 75mm cnnon was added, the crew number fell to 3 (commander/gunner, driver and radio operator due to the lack of space. This was the Sd. Kfz. 233.

The Sd. Kfz. 234/3 carried an L/24 75mm gun and retained it's 4 crew members, but there is a great size dufference between an L24 75mm. gun and a 75mm PaK 40 installed in the 234/4. The PaK 40 was huge, since it retained its gun shield.

Best,
David
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....

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Re: The Sd. Kfz. 234 Thread!!!

Post by Commissar D, the Evil » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:10 pm

Hi Folks, on another subject, when our good friends Hans Weber and Martin Block were trying to establish the exact distrbution of the 234 series, I postulated (Whoa! Didn't know I knew that word, did you?) that 4th Panzer had received Sd. Kfz. 234's meant for the surrounded 24th Panzer Division.

I don't remember that we ever solved that riddle. This is an excerpt from a new book I purchased, "Knight's Cross Panzer's, The German 35th Panzer Regiment in WWII " edited by Hans Schaufler, Page 343:

"Eight -wheeled armored cars--tropical armored vehicles with diesels--that were intended for the encircled 24. Panzer Division in East Prussia were impressed into the service of Panzeraufklarungs-Abteilung 4, along with their crews."

I don't think this solves the theory, but it adds a little meat to my argument.

Best Regards,
~D
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....

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