Panzer IV Ausf F2 first combat?

German weapons, vehicles and equipment 1919-1945.

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Lexxx
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Panzer IV Ausf F2 first combat?

Post by Lexxx » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:27 am

Can anyone tell me the first time the Pz. IV Ausf F2 first saw combat? I know that a few of this varient were delivered to the Pz. Divisions before the kick-off of Operation Blue in June 1942. However, had this model been delivered in time to see action during the Second Battle of Kharkov in May 1942? Any help is sincerely appreciated.

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Post by David W » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:07 pm

Some had made it to N. Africa by April/May 1942, and as the trip to the Russian front was quicker, & they had, naturally a higher priority, it would seem logical that they would have been available by April 1942 at the very latest. But I have nothing to support this theory, other than logic. :? :D
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Post by Bryson C » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:41 pm

There is no Panzer IV Ausf.F2. The 'Ausf.F2' name was used briefly but changed to 'Ausf.G' there is no difference between the F2 and G just different names. The F2 name only survives because two manuals were printed. The first major offensive employment of Panzer IVs with the 7.5 cm L/43 was during Operation Venezia (Rommel’s pre-emptive strike against the British in Libya) in late may 1942.

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F2 v. G

Post by Lexxx » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:56 pm

Bryson,

Isn't there slight differences between the Ausf F2 and Ausf G varients? It was my understanding that the Ausf G had slight thicker turret armour and winter combat modifications.

Do you know when the Ausf F2 first saw combat on the Russian Front?

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Post by David W » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:58 pm

No, no difference at all.
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F1 v. F2 v. G

Post by Lexxx » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:06 pm

Bryson,

So would I be correct if I state the only difference between the Ausf F1 and the Ausf F2 or G is the main gun?

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Re: F2 v. G

Post by Bryson C » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:14 pm

Lexxx wrote:Bryson,

Isn't there slight differences between the Ausf F2 and Ausf G varients? It was my understanding that the Ausf G had slight thicker turret armour and winter combat modifications.

Do you know when the Ausf F2 first saw combat on the Russian Front?
Like I said there is no Ausf.F2, and the onlt difference is the name. I am not sure when the Panzer IV Ausf.G first saw combat in the East, but at the beginning of the Summer offensive on June 28 1942 there were 135 Panzer IV Ausf.Gs with units of Army Group South.
Last edited by Bryson C on Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: F1 v. F2 v. G

Post by Bryson C » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:21 pm

Lexxx wrote:Bryson,

So would I be correct if I state the only difference between the Ausf F1 and the Ausf F2 or G is the main gun?
The difference between the Ausf.G and its predecessor the Ausf.F was:
-longer gun (obviously)
-Larger amour guard for recoil and recuperator cylinders
-Ammunition racks for longer rounds
-Strengthened internal travel lock
-Auxiliary hand turret traverse for loader

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Post by von_noobie » Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:19 am

plus the IV ausf G had a optional armour plate of 30mm, and to go into detail the PzKpfw IV Ausf. F2 carried more ammo for the secondary gun, 3192 bullets, and PzKpfw IV Ausf. F2 had a hull lenght of 6.63 m while the IV ausf G had a hull lenght of 6.62 and the IV ausf G had 500 more kg of weight, i also think the sights were different not sure thought

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Post by Bryson C » Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:07 am

von_noobie wrote:plus the IV ausf G had a optional armour plate of 30mm, and to go into detail the PzKpfw IV Ausf. F2 carried more ammo for the secondary gun, 3192 bullets, and PzKpfw IV Ausf. F2 had a hull lenght of 6.63 m while the IV ausf G had a hull lenght of 6.62 and the IV ausf G had 500 more kg of weight, i also think the sights were different not sure thought
There is no Ausf.F2, the F2 and Ausf.G are the same tank, the only difference is the name.

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Post by David W » Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:09 pm

Bryson is correct. The confusion arises because some quite well respected author's books contain common errors.
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Post by von_noobie » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:26 pm

oh!! ok damn authors and internet sites,

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Post by Tom Houlihan » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:10 am

von_noobie wrote:oh!! ok damn authors and internet sites,
hehehe...That's an entirely different thread, and it's already been hit! :D
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Post by Paulus II » Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:53 pm

I seem to recall the so-called Ausf. F2 having a different muzzlebrake than the Ausf. G. All vehicles with a 'ball-shaped' muzzlebrake being refered to as F2 and later vehicles with the 'typical' muzzlebrake being refered to as G. The F2 being an upgunned F1 and only after changing the muzzlebrake and adding some armour was the vehicle refered to as Ausf. G. Of course this information is based on various books and sites. Are they all wrong?

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Post by David W » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:01 pm

Yeah. But let's not go there again.
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