German Equipment in N.Afrika 1941-2

[Paulus II]

You're right, I got my dates mixed up, sorry.

Paul

[David W]

My entry for the SdKfz 247 has been challenged. I don't mind being wrong. Can anyone confirm if the the 4 wheeled SdKfz 247 was present, or not?

[Carl Schwamberger]

In Ian Hoggs 'German Artillery of WWII' there is a photograph of the "schwere 10cm Kanone 18" or s 10cm K18(Bleiglanz) in North Africa. Probably Tunisia.

Does anyone have knowledge of:

1. The number sent to NA & when.

2. Their role? Was it as a divsiosal cannon, or as a corps/army weapon?

3. Is there any evidence it was used in the anti tank role? A armor piercing round is shown for it, and it has an impressive muzzle velocity. It looks to be as usefull as the 88 Flak in the emergency AT role.

[Rich]

In Ian Hoggs 'German Artillery of WWII' there is a photograph of the "schwere 10cm Kanone 18" or s 10cm K18(Bleiglanz) in North Africa. Probably Tunisia.

Does anyone have knowledge of:

1. The number sent to NA & when.

2. Their role? Was it as a divsiosal cannon, or as a corps/army weapon?

3. Is there any evidence it was used in the anti tank role? A armor piercing round is shown for it, and it has an impressive muzzle velocity. It looks to be as usefull as the 88 Flak in the emergency AT role.

Hi Carl,

There were two 10cm sFK batterien in North Africa, they were 2. and 3./Artillerie-Abteilung 408, which arrived sometime around June 1941. To confuse things a bit in October 1942 they were redesignated as 5. and 2. Batterie (respectively) Afrika-Artillerie Regiment 1.

It may have been fired at tanks, but it was never purposely - too my knowledge at least - used that way in Africa, although it was a number of times so used in the early stages of Barbarossa. Otherwise it was doctrinally intended as the primary divisional and corps counterbattery weapon. In 1942 and 1943 the Heer began augmenting it to a significant degree with the 17cm Kanone in Moerser Lafitte and the 10cm began appearing as a counterbattery piece in the Panzer and Panzergrenadier Division, but 15. and 21. Panzer Division in North Africa were not so organized (I'll have to check 10. Panzer Division in Tunisia).

Hope that helps.

[David W]

In addition to the above, there were also the following 10cm K18 Batteries.

3/I Abt 911. (Re-named 3/III Abt 155).

3 x Batteries in 529th Kuesten Artillerie Abt. (re-named IV/2 Afrika Art Reg).

533rd Kuesten Artillerie Abt, received 1 batterie as replacements for losses, somewhen in the latter half of 1942.

As did II/115 Artillerie Regiment.

There were 3 x Batteries in II Abt Falschrimjaeger Artillerie Regiment From July 1942.

1 Batterie in 1Afrika Art Abt. (re-named I Abt 190 Art Reg).

I have also unconfirmed reports of a replacement batterie in III/33 Mot Art Reg from March 1942. And a third batterie in Art Abt 408.

[Rich]

In addition to the above, there were also the following 10cm K18 Batteries.

3/I Abt 911. (Re-named 3/III Abt 155).

Learn me to stop relying on my memory. But it was not 3./III Art.-Abtl. 155 (3. Batterie would have been part of I. Abteilung), it was 9. Batterie that was equipped with 10cm sFK. BTW, 9./Art.-Abtl. 33 was also equipped with the 10cm sFK.

3 x Batteries in 529th Kuesten Artillerie Abt. (re-named IV/2 Afrika Art Reg).

Actually HKAB 529 was still in Italy as late as October 1942. I've been unable to locate a date for its arrival in North Africa. More interesting, it is specifically identified as being equipped with 10.5 cm Kanone, not 10 cm sFK (which of course were 10.5 cm caliber but were never designated as such by the Germans). It is not further identified but given that the other HKAB were all equipped with French 155mm guns and howitzers I suspect these were French 105mm pieces.

533rd Kuesten Artillerie Abt, received 1 batterie as replacements for losses, somewhen in the latter half of 1942.

Actually HKAB 533 was evidently originally equipped with French 155mm howitzers and guns. But it was re-equipped sometime over the summer of 1942 with captured British 25-pdrs (known as 8.76cm K (e)) and was so equipped at Alamein.

As did II/115 Artillerie Regiment.

4., 5., and 6./Art.-Regt. 115 were equipped with 21cm Moerser, not 10cm sFK. Although for a time after CRUSADER the third battery was actually equipped with 10cm Italian guns apparently until replacement 21cm pieces were received.

There were 3 x Batteries in II Abt Falschrimjaeger Artillerie Regiment From July 1942.

Are you referring to Ramcke's artillery? Those were Lg 2. Or do you mean HG's artillery? Those were still in Holland in July 1942 and I don't think much of it arrived in Tunisia?

1 Batterie in 1Afrika Art Abt. (re-named I Abt 190 Art Reg).

Sorry, I got stuck in the Alamein time period.

I have also unconfirmed reports of a replacement batterie in III/33 Mot Art Reg from March 1942. And a third batterie in Art Abt 408.

See above, it wasn't a replacement battery, but I did forget about it. And the third battery in Art.-Abtl. 408 is a bit mysterious. It was originally equipped with 10cm sFK, but the third battery disappears after CRUSADER only to reappear later in the summer of 1942 but manning 15cm sFH.

All in all the artillery in Africa is an interesting subject. Just trying to figure out what Art.-Battr. 363 and 364 were equipped with and where they were organizationally could take up a book.

[David W]

Edited today, to include 10.5cm LG2.

[Carl Schwamberger]

"...just trying to figure out what Art.-Battr. 363 and 364 were equipped with and where they were organizationally could take up a book"

Now I am totally baffled.

[Rich]

"...just trying to figure out what Art.-Battr. 363 and 364 were equipped with and where they were organizationally could take up a book"

Now I am totally baffled.

Why?

363 and 364 are odd in that they were evidently originally organized as mountain artillery batteries - Gebirgs-Artillerie-Batterien - with 7.5cm Gebirgs-Kanonen. Of course neither got to Africa with that equipment. AFAIK 363 got subsumed into Artllerie-Abteilung 361, helping to man British 25-pdrs and Russian 7.62cm guns. And 364 also manned Russian 7.62cm guns.

But the whens and whyfors are still pretty elusive.

[David W]

Any news on the SdKfz 247?
Should it stay, or should it go?

[David W]

SdKfz 9 Famo?

[David W]

Edited to include SdKfz 9. & SdKfz 247 (4 Rad)?

[David W]

Edited to remove SdKfz 260. Apparently any sent would have been converted into SdKfz 261 prior to being put into service.

[Nacht]

David,

As we have discussed, the DAK monthly report documentation shows the Sd.Kfz.260's but commonly these were modified into additional radio carrying vehicles and more antennas added to make them into a Sd.Kfz.261 style variant...

The production quantities of this type never met field demand...

Two types of the Sd.Kfz.247 is the problem with me and the February-June 1941 records for equipement delivered to the DAK show two were allocated from the 3./PD's Stab and attached to the 2Kp. of this Div and then transferred to the newly formed 5./leichte "AFRIKA"... but did they actually arrive as no photographic evidence has shown up and were they the 4 wheeld or 6 wheeld variant? The early delivered 6 wheeled versions could have been the type that the Stab of 3./PD received as the are photographs of these in use by this division.

Just trying to share some of the information we have discussed to readers here...

247.jpg (92.58 KiB) Viewed 8941 times

[David W]

So it's still a "maybe" then?