Tiger II with Porsche-Turret in schwereSSPanzerAbt.?

[Vagandubo]

Does anyone know which untis got the first 50 Tiger II (Kingtiger) with the Porsche Turret ?
Have there been Porsche Turrets serving in units of the Waffen-SS?

Regards,
Phil

[Paul_9686]

Near as I can tell, Phil, the only units which received the Porsche-turreted Tiger II were the Panzer Replacement and Training Battalion 500, Heavy Tank Battalion 503, and Radio Tank Company 316. All of them were Heer (army) units, not Waffen-SS. The 316th received five, and the 503rd got 45, which means (I think) that the 500th passed all their vehicles on to combat units as soon as they could.

The 503rd managed to save just two of their Porsche-turreted Tiger IIs during the retreat from France; at least one of them was in combat against the Russians in Hungary during the winter of 1944-45.

The 316th's vehicles were in such poor automotive condition, they were never used in combat, though they were in France with the Panzer Lehr Division, and they were ultimately destroyed to prevent their being captured intact by the Western Allies.

My source: Osprey New Vanguard #1, King Tiger Heavy Tank 1942-45.

Hope this has been useful. Perhaps someone else can flesh it out more if you require it.

Yours,
Paul

[Ron Klages]

Phil,

My research has resulted in the following allocations of Tiger IIs with the Porsche Turret.

Only Panzer-Kompanie 316(Fkl) and schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 were issued Tiger IIs with the Porsche turret. There were 50 Tiger IIs produced with the Henschel chassis and the Porsche turret. Panzer-Kompanie 316(Fkl) received 5 of these Tiger IIs and schwere Panzer-
Abteilung 503 received 24 Porsche turreted Tiger IIs. The remainder of these Tiger IIs apparently were issued to the Heeres Waffenamt
[15 in total] and Panzer-Ersatz-Abteilung 500 [6 in total].

Of the 24 issued to schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503, 12 went to the 1.Company and 12 were issued to the 3.Company. In addition to the 12 issued to the 3.Company, they also were issued 2 Henschel turreted Tiger IIs at the same time[turret numbers 300 and 314]. These 2 Tiger IIs with the turret designations of 300 and 314 were both lost north-west
of Paris in the retreat from Normandy.

When the 3.Company left Mailly le Camp, France for the front in early August 1944 they left 2 Porsche turreted Tiger IIs behind because of mechanical problems they were experiencing. These 2 Tiger IIs with the Porsche turret were transported from Mailly le Camp back to repair facilities in Germany. The transport began on 26 August 1944 and they arrived in Paderborn, Germany on 3 September 1944.

After schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 returned to Paderborn for refitting and transport to Hungary they received 45 Tiger IIs with the Henschel
turret but they also were issued the 2 Porsche turreted Tiger IIs that had been returned and repaired from Mailly le Camp. Therefore these 2
Porsche turreted Tiger IIs were in action in Hungary and they were lost there sometime between 1 November 1944 and 10 May 1945. From photographs it is known that one of these two Porsche turreted Tiger IIs had the turret number of 314 and was named "Anneliese".

A final point is that there are photo's of a Porsche turreted Tiger II with sPA 506 and this is a possibility. Where the vehicles went that were issued to Heeres Waffenamt and Panzer-Ersatz-Abteilung 500 is not clear. In the latter periods of the war the vehicles in the pocession of these units were often sent on to units at the front but as of this date I have not found documentation on when or who.

Best regards,

Ron Klages

[michael kenny]

Quote:

"In addition to the 12 issued to the 3.Company, they also were issued 2 Henschel turreted Tiger IIs at the same time[turret numbers 300 and 314]."

Slight problem. Photos show that there were 3 TII(h) in 3/503 at least.
There is another photo published in Bruno Renoult's 2 volumes on the Seine crossing that may be a 4th!

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?f ... 1080428001

Some of the pictures have expired but much is still left.

[Paul_9686]

Thanks for fleshing out my answer a bit more, Ron.

Perhaps, Michael, the "extra" Henschel-turreted King Tigers were transfers from the 2nd company?

Yours,
Paul

[michael kenny]

The only 'confusion' would be a misidentification of a Tiger II(h) from SS 501.

1/503 is said to have had 12 TII(P), 3/503 only 12 TII(p) 2 TII(h) and 2/503 never got any TII's at all during its time in France.

(fkl)213 had 5 (or even 6) TII (p)

SS 501 had 14 TII(h)

Thus any 'extra' had to be from SS 501. It seems very doubtful that this is the case though.

[Paul_9686]

Michael, that King Tiger book I mentioned in my earlier posting said that SS Tiger Battalion 501, while still numbered "101", received its first King Tigers (Henschel-turreted) in late July or early August 1944. All 14 of them were lost in the big retreat from France. As you suggest, perhaps during the confusion of the retreat, some of these vehicles may have been "comandeered" by the Heer's 503rd--but I can't imagine SS troopers willingly giving up such a magnificent vehicle as the King Tiger to Army troops, for love or money.

Yours,
Paul

[Vagandubo]

Hello guys,

thank you very much for this helpful informations!