Waffen-ss T-shirts and others....

happy-man · Post by **happy-man** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:56 am

PS2. Im not owner of this shop! :-)

Helmut · Post by **Helmut** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:03 pm

stab131 wrote:The American constitution allows and grants Americans freedom of speech and allows this product to be sold in America.

Who would want it? Maybe some re-enactors who reenact the units whose insignia are shown on the t-shirt or maybe war gamers who wear the shirts while they play their war games.

As for my experience with law enforcement skinheads NORMALLY don't wear unit t-shirts.

Oh and for us Americans, the company is based in CA, "the land of fruits and nuts."

Would I by one of these items, NO WAY, but don't slam America because we have the liberty for ignorant asses to make and sell such items, and don't judge all Americans by the actions of one company.

We have a different set of laws and a governing system than the rest of the world, which doesn't mean we are better, just different.

I have heard that in Germany it is illegal to display photos of WWII German soldiers, in uniform, in a manner that they may be seen from outside the house. If true, then how sad, for such a law would never be allowed in America.

We are not perfect, and some of my fellow country folks can be real jerks when they go overseas and visit other countries.

Just don’t judge ALL Americans by one company.

I think you hit the nail right on the head.

While I personally would not wear this stuffeither, at least I have the RIGHT to wear it. Virtually all the posters who have commented on how tastless we Americans are for allowing our people to wear this stuff, are from countries where this stuff is illegal but sundry and other trash worn by rock stars and Communists for example, is perfectly legal.
In Austria, they go so far as to desecrate graves of War heroes (Nowotny). In Germany, they deny their own history and make heroes out of deserters and communists at the expense of their own soldiers who did their duty as they saw it and died in the process. Go figure!!

I'll take the good old USA any day.

schwedi · Post by **schwedi** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:24 pm

For the "old" Europe the tratition and laws of America are still strange!!
Yes in some bits you are right, austrians which deny their history arent (for me personly) no right patriots or austrians!!

We did what we did and there is nothing to change at it!!

Das_Reich · Post by **Das_Reich** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:31 pm

I think that not all Germans including SS were bad. And contrary, these men were brave heros, deserving of memory. That young kids are wearing this stuff serves to honor the fallen heros of the SS and Germany.

It is too bad that so many people would refuse to honor these great men, just because a few of them were bad. But not to fear, your ideas of political correctness are precisely why people are turning to militaristic ideals.

they are tired of your self hating, affeminate views! They want a strong ideal. We want spirit and discipline. We want everything that was Germany except mad men like Hitler (an Austrian).

schwedi · Post by **schwedi** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:37 pm

I think everyone here knows that Hitler was an Austrian!

And you are right! We sould honor these brave men, but 3/4 of the people which are wearing these t-shirts and other clothing dont wear it because of honoring these soldiers. They are wearing it because it is "in" in their social enviroment! They are wearing it because they think everything the people did in WW2 was ok! But it wasnt!!

So think of that! My grandfather also was a volunteer in the Waffen-SS and he isnt a bad man, but he and his friend did bad things in WW2 because they thaught it is correct!!

schwedi · Post by **schwedi** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:39 pm

Sorry for mistakes!!

Das_Reich · Post by **Das_Reich** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:41 pm

schwedi wrote:I think everyone here knows that Hitler was an Austrian!

And you are right! We sould honor these brave men, but 3/4 of the people which are wearing these t-shirts and other clothing dont wear it because of honoring these soldiers. They are wearing it because it is "in" in their social enviroment! They are wearing it because they think everything the people did in WW2 was ok! But it wasnt!!

So think of that! My grandfather also was a volunteer in the Waffen-SS and he isnt a bad man, but he and his friend did bad things in WW2 because they thaught it is correct!!

so why should the 3/4 spoil it for the 1/4 who are honoring them? In America we have a saying: "Dont throw the baby out with the bath water"

BTW: I salute your grandfather. Meine Ehre Heisst Treue!

schwedi · Post by **schwedi** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:52 pm

You are right, but there are to many who are dishonoring them!!

I still have my opinion: This isnt correct.

To my grandfather: he is still living today, and what he survived I only can say an austrian sentence: HUT AB!!

And to them which didnt survived: WIR WERDEN EUCH NIE VERGESSEN, UND DAS, WAS IHR GELEISTET HABT!!

Das_Reich · Post by **Das_Reich** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:47 pm

schwedi wrote:
And to them which didnt survived: WIR WERDEN EUCH NIE VERGESSEN, UND DAS, WAS IHR GELEISTET HABT!!

I will NEVER forget min freund. Chuse.

schwedi · Post by **schwedi** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:51 pm

Me too...

But the survivers will never forget too...

happy-man · Post by **happy-man** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:20 am

schwedi:

Can You translate "HUT AB!!" and "WIR WERDEN EUCH NIE VERGESSEN, UND DAS, WAS IHR GELEISTET HABT!!" on english?

Thx!

Piet Duits · Post by **Piet Duits** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:56 am

I saw something strange on the TV a few weeks ago.
Extreme Right was marching in Germany on behalf of all the soldiers who did their duty.
With slogans as My Grandfather was no Murderer and such (but then in german of course).

The march was disrupted by ultra-left, who claimed all the german soldiers were murderers...

I usually dislike actions by extreme right (there's even a fellow who looks like Adolf H., complete with the mustache and the brown uniform), but this time... they were right!

You see, I get sick of political correctness everywhere. In my personal opinion, this P.C.-thing is going in extreme measures in the US and in Germany (again, my personal view). Germany is crazy, because of their denyal of their past.
In Holland however, we have no clean hands on this either (remember our colonies?), but heck, almost every country in Europe has dirty hands when looking back to recent history.

I am not saying the german soldiers who are still living (including austrian soldiers, and the Freiwilligen) should receive a parade, but more understanding would be appreciated.
Feichlinge receiving honours, Landser not, unacceptable.

schwedi · Post by **schwedi** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:53 am

You are right!!

Tranlsate: HUT AB= like Respect!!
and: the other = like: wei will never forget what german soldiers done!!(good and bad things)!!

We cant run away from our past!!

Rob - WSSOB · Post by **Rob - WSSOB** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:09 am

I think that not all Germans including SS were bad.

But the Third Reich was a terrible regime led by a racist demogogue who rightly should be placed in the rogue's gallery of evil dictators such as Stalin, Idi Imin and Pol Pot.

Wearing the t-shirt isn't about glorifying the dear old Grandpa who served Heer 197th ID. It's about glorifying Nazism. And glorifying Nazism, from the logical to the historical to the moral standpoint, isn't a nice thing to do.

-

Das_Reich · Post by **Das_Reich** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:20 pm

rob you simply want to throw the baby out with the bath water. do us all a favor. let freedom reign and escape the PC world of modern european thought.