Waffen-SS foreign troops

German SS and Waffen-SS 1923-1945.
Sebastian Pye
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Re: Waffen-SS foreign troops

Post by Sebastian Pye »

Freiritter wrote:Germans really let recruits from neutral and allied nations leave freely after their term was up? Did recruits from the occupied nations have a similar right?
Yes they did, furthermore, it could be written in their contract that the soldier was only supposed to fight on the eastern front. I know of one swedish ss-soldier who was going to be transferred to the western front but because of the contract he could go home instead.
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Post by Rob - WSSOB »

Freiritter, I'd suggest you research individual SS units to get a sense of the complexity of the attempts to raise foreign manpower for the SS. The SS treated each nationality differently - e.g. Dutch vs. Danish vs. Norwegian vs. Ukranian vs. Yugoslavian (Bosnian Muslim) and thus the experiences were extremely varied. Both the Danish and the Dutch SS volunteers encountered "labor relations" issues with their SS leadership. Some W-SS volunteers like Walloon Leon Degrelle were fascist ideologues and very dedicated soldiers; some "bugged out" quickly like the troops of the 13th SS division who joined Tito's partisans in late 1944.

You should also reseach Gottlob Berger - he was the guy responsible for finding the bodies for Himmler's "pan-European" movement. A very interesting character. Played a much more crucial role in the growth of the W-SS than Steiner or Hausser ever did.

As for the W-SS "pan-European" movement? It can be best summed up as being neither.
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Freiritter
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Post by Freiritter »

Well, I have researched some of the individual W-SS units, in particular the Dutch, Danish, Flemish, French and Walloon troops. I've found that these units were raised by local fascist parties as collaborative initiatives with some anti-Communist tones. The majority of these soldiers were former military personnel. It seems to me that maybe the foreign W-SS units were in a sense, like the colonial troops of the imperial powers or mercenaries with some propaganda support. Though, this post shouldn't be seen as attacking the bravery of individual W-SS men.
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Post by Rob - WSSOB »

Hi Freiritter - exactly. Even the W-SS nomenclature differentiated
between several "levels" of troops - "SS" vs. "Freiwilligen" (Volunteer) vs. "Waffen" (Armed) -
i.e. ethnic Germain vs. Volksdeutsche vs. Other, although in practice,
especially towards the end of the war, all divisions had their
share of volksdeutsche and foreign draftees and/or volunteers.
Helmut Von Moltke

Post by Helmut Von Moltke »

It must not be forgetten that the Heer started the Pan European thing in 1941, they had more nationalities, like Croatia, Belgium, France and Spain, while the W-SS only had Danes, Finns, and Norwegians in 1941, not very big ans significant nations.
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Post by Handzar »

this is far beyond a stupidest topic I've ever seen.


Where did you earn you rights to classify someone as bad soldiers???
You weren't there, neither was I, I dont make judegments I study and re-enact history.
It's OK to compare it, but here the truth about obscure units is unknown, thus you CANNOT make a good comparison at all!
Semper Fi!!!!!
Helmut Von Moltke

Post by Helmut Von Moltke »

Hanzar, no one is describing them as bad soldiers here, if you read properly some posts.
Though, this post shouldn't be seen as attacking the bravery of individual W-SS men.
Torquez

Post by Torquez »

It was. From the very start even.
No. The idea of Germans was pan-aryanism. They only really accepted countries they considered aryan and excluded countries that German state viewed as settled by creatures considered animals:Poles(like me), Jews, Russians.
Thus the effort of Germany was the crusade of racial extermination. True, using volunteers from other countries but it wasn't a Pan-European effort since it excluded majority of people from Europe.
Likewise the same logic could be used to say communism was pan-european because it involved people from various countries.
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Post by Handzar »

Yea but still SS-Freiwillige was 2nd class SS, title given to people like the Dutch, Volksdeutsche.

If you look at the countries Himmler liked best were the loyal allies of Germany in WW1.
Imperial Germany, Austria-Hungary and East Prussia.
Italians were traitors in both wars.

BUT the recruitment effort was usually focused in those countries, or on those territories.
Semper Fi!!!!!
Helmut Von Moltke

Post by Helmut Von Moltke »

If you look at the countries Himmler liked best were the loyal allies of Germany in WW1.
Imperial Germany, Austria-Hungary and East Prussia.
Italians were traitors in both wars.

BUT the recruitment effort was usually focused in those countries, or on those territories.
Imperial Germany, Austrians, and East Prussia were at that time all in Germany, and thus were all Germans, No distinction between them and Germans, they were part of normal SS Divisions, German ones, not Freiwilge. Aalso, the 5. SS Panzer Division "Wiking", made up of Scandanavians, is not a 'Freiwilge" Division is it not? Italians. Some Italians remained normal, haven't you heard of the 29. Waffen Grenadier Division der SS? Please do some more research on the Waffen SS as a whole... :?
Torquez

Post by Torquez »

Aalso, the 5. SS Panzer Division "Wiking", made up of Scandanavians, is not a 'Freiwilge" Division is it not?
The one that executed Jews ?
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Post by dnl-panzerschreck »

Wiking is quite clean, though it has some blood on its hands. Especially the Westland regiment, which participated in executions of jews and communists in Lviv/Zhitomir in the summer of 1941. After Reg.Kdr. Wäckerle was killed.

/Henrik
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Post by Handzar »

Helmut Von Moltke wrote:
If you look at the countries Himmler liked best were the loyal allies of Germany in WW1.
Imperial Germany, Austria-Hungary and East Prussia.
Italians were traitors in both wars.

BUT the recruitment effort was usually focused in those countries, or on those territories.
Imperial Germany, Austrians, and East Prussia were at that time all in Germany, and thus were all Germans, No distinction between them and Germans, they were part of normal SS Divisions, German ones, not Freiwilge. Aalso, the 5. SS Panzer Division "Wiking", made up of Scandanavians, is not a 'Freiwilge" Division is it not? Italians. Some Italians remained normal, haven't you heard of the 29. Waffen Grenadier Division der SS? Please do some more research on the Waffen SS as a whole... :?
Italians were under the title "Waffen der SS" they weren't considered Nordic. But they volunteered into those other units if they let them.
The 29.SS existed for a short while, I may be wrong but the russian 29.SS took it's divisional number?
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Post by Björn »

"Wiking is quite clean, though it has some blood on its hands. Especially the Westland regiment, which participated in executions of jews and communists in Lviv/Zhitomir in the summer of 1941"

Hello, what are your sources?

B.
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Post by sid guttridge »

Hi Bjorn.

I don't know about this incident, but the German Field Marshal v. Rundestedt, the Austrian General Eglseer, the Slovak Generals Malar and Turanec, and the diary of a Finn in the Finnish battalion attached to the Wiking all bear witness to problems with the Wiking Division.

Very little seems to be known in the Anglo-Saxon world about the specifics of atrocities on the Eastern Front by the Germans, but the Wiking seems to have had more than its fair share of known reports against it from its own side!

Cheers,

Sid.
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