Need a totenkopf collar tab lesson

[jagerbecker]

I need to know when the dual totenkopf collar tabs were worn and by what units. Any help is appreciated.

[TH Albright]

I am no expert on uniforms of the Third Reich, but I believe the double Totenkopf collar tabs were only worn by members of the Totenkopfdivision circa 1939-41. The reason, I can only guess: perhaps it was used to differentiate TK division personnel from those of the other Totenkopf regiments at the time; also, during the Western campagne, the SS-Verfugungsdivision temporarily abolished the use of collar tabs for security reasons - the SS-TK may have used this rationale not to show the rank tab.

[Paul Hanson]

This question is unanswerable without further info from Jagerbecker. Do you mean the SS Totenkopf or the Heer Panzer Totenkopf. At which troops are you looking?

A good answer depends on whether they are Waffen-SS or Heer Panzertruppen.

PH

[jagerbecker]

Apologies, I'm looking for information regarding the wearing of dual totenkopf collars tab by members of SS-Totenkopf Division in France 1940.

Thank you, TH Albright. Hopefully your information will be confirmed.

[Chris]

I his book "Cloth Insignia of the SS", page 189, John R. Angolia states that the mirror deathhead collarpatch was authorized within the SS-Totenkopfverbände, (year ?), and that when the division was initially being formed, it was decided to use army standard of mirror images collarpatches and rank insignia upon shoulderstraps/-boards. Upon the introduction, (or arrivel (?)), of the camoflage smock, (which covered the shoulders), an order of May 1940, disbanded this this mirror collarsystem. It was to return to the ordinay SS rankinsignia, with the single right collar deathhead and the left rank collar.

All the best
Chris

[Paul Hanson]

I agree with Chris except for one small detail. Andrew Mollo in UNIFORMS OF THE WAFFEN-SS VOLUME 7 WAFFEN-SS BADGES AND UNITS DISTINCTIONS 1939-1945 echoes Angolia's information but states photographic evidence indicates that the practice continued beyond the May, 1940 discontinuance date well into 1942.

PH

[Chris]

Hi Paul

I’m in total aggrement with your (and Mollo's) statement, that mirror patches was worn, after it was forbidden. I remember, (hopefully correct), some photographs of the Totenkopf in the Russia, with the double deathhead collar used.

Consulting Andrew Mollo’s Uniforms of the SS (Coll. Ed.), Vol. 4 concerning the SS-Totenkopfverbände, I learned (page 306) the origin of this prohibition of the mirrorpatches: Ausführungsbestimmungen RFSS, Hauptamt H.u.B. vom 19.6 1940. But Mollo also states, in the same footnote, that b) V.B1. d.W.SS. 1941 also contained this prohibition. The latter maybe indicates that it was necessary to repeat the order of June 19. 1940, because some units still used the double deathhead collarpatches(?). Maybe, the V.B. 1941, only summed up the previous years regulations?

Well just a little add-on.

All the best
Chris