SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

German SS and Waffen-SS 1923-1945.
John P. Moore
Author & Moderator
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:40 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon & France

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:00 pm

next
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---31.jpg
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---31.jpg (201.65 KiB) Viewed 3892 times

John P. Moore
Author & Moderator
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:40 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon & France

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:01 pm

next
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---32.jpg
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---32.jpg (208.56 KiB) Viewed 3898 times

John P. Moore
Author & Moderator
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:40 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon & France

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:38 pm

more pages
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---33.jpg
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---33.jpg (174.35 KiB) Viewed 3802 times

John P. Moore
Author & Moderator
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:40 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon & France

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:39 pm

next
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---34.jpg
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---34.jpg (189.42 KiB) Viewed 3795 times

John P. Moore
Author & Moderator
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:40 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon & France

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:40 pm

next
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---35.jpg
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---35.jpg (186.42 KiB) Viewed 3800 times

Phil Don
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:52 am

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by Phil Don » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:07 pm

Hi

For the french volunteers, one thing must be noticed.

Page 14, Jean CROISILE is a SS Haupsturmführer, classified with the german SS Führer.
Page 30, Pierre HUG is a Waffen Untersturmführer, classified with the Waffen Führer.

I think it's the proof of the difficulty for the IIIrd Reich to classify France, germanic nation or not ? In his memory, a french volunteer in 1943 explain how surprised was the doctor in his first medical visit because he was blond hairs and blue eyes but was from Marseille in the south of France. German were thinking that a real fronteer exist between french population from the north (germanic) and the south one (latin).

Regards

Phil D.

John P. Moore
Author & Moderator
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:40 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon & France

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:32 pm

Phil makes an interesting observation here concerning these two French officers. The front of the Führerkarte below of Jean Croisile does confirm that he was a Reserve officer in the Waffen-SS in case anyone was wondering if there was a mistake on the promotion list. But why were some French officers Waffenführer and others Reserve officer? Croisile does not appear to a "Volksdeutche" from France which might have been one explanation. Similarly, why do some officers from Denmark such as Mogens Gregerson and Jan van Lith from Holland have SS numbers when most other Waffen-SS officers from those countries have no SS numbers?
Croisile,-Jean---1.jpg
Croisile,-Jean---1.jpg (135.25 KiB) Viewed 3707 times

leib1
Supporter
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:42 am

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by leib1 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:54 am

Could it have anything to do with one of the parents been German ?
Best Jamie

Phil Don
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:52 am

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by Phil Don » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:00 pm

Hi Jamie

As I know nothing to do. No german parents. There are many other cases of such classification into SS and not Waffen Führer. In the same Personalveänderungsblatt I've seen Jean Artus, another french officer into the SS Führer and not into Waffen.
I have the pic of a EK II diploma for a french "SS Rottenführer" and not "Waffen Rottenführer" from march 1945. One explanation given by an author (I don't remember who) was that the former members of the french Sturmbrigade (1943/1944) were recruited with SS standard (and so considered as SS) but after november 1944, when the LVF was transfered into the new brigade Charlemagne, former LVF soldiers (Wehrmacht standard) weren't SS mann but Waffen mann.

It could be logical but the problem is that Pierre HUG was volunteer into the Sturmbrigade in 1943 !!!

Phil D.

Stormman
Supporter
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:12 am

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by Stormman » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:28 am

And why where some Flemish volunteers, mainly participants from the Lehrgänge für germanische Offiziere, promoted to Waffen-Führer? For instance, on the SS-Personalveränderungsblatt of 30.01.1945, the Flemish volunteer Ferdinand Jacobs was promoted to Waffen-Untersturmführer. Wheren't Waffen-Führer of non-Germanic descendent?

leib1
Supporter
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:42 am

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by leib1 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:48 am

Hi Phil,
yes i remember reading the same now you mention it.Not sure where though might, re-read Pour L'europe see if he sheds any light on it.
Best Jamie

John P. Moore
Author & Moderator
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:40 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon & France

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:53 pm

Since nobody else appears to want to add to the discussion that Phil started I will now go back to posting pages from the promotion list. Perhaps someone has something to say about the names on this page
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---36.jpg
SS-PVB-Nov-1944---36.jpg (179.9 KiB) Viewed 3524 times

Manfred Rau
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:42 am

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by Manfred Rau » Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:00 am

Thank you very much to the author John P. Moore for his continuous publishing of data sheets on this board.
Many extra time he invested for the lot of historian scans. But it gives all user the chance to research in these old documents from home, without to drive far away to the archives. I found on this site many for me useful information and known names.
That's why my special thanks and greetings to John again.
Manfred Rassau

John P. Moore
Author & Moderator
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:40 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon & France

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:39 pm

Welcome to Feldgrau Manfred! Manfred has been a friend of mine for many years and has been very helpful in my research via his many contacts with Waffen-SS signal veterans as part of his research of the "Fuchbau , an enormous undergound communications facility near Berlin. Manfred is a retired Oberstleutnant of the Bundeswehr and NVA and once commanded the "Fuchsbau". His web site on the "Fuchsbau" can be found here-

http://nva-fuchsbau.privat.t-online.de/fbz001.htm

John

ghost
Supporter
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:35 pm
Location: England

Re: SS-Personalveränderungsblatt November 1944

Post by ghost » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:33 am

Hello

two comments on incorrect entries that caught my eye.

KACZALA myron geb 19.06.06 is listed as a Untersturmfuhrer.

He was Ukrainian and should have been Waffen-Untersturmfuhrer. He was Veterinary Doctor, held bythe Americans as POW later emigrated to Canada and worked in the forest where he was killed in an accident.

THISSEN Johann his unit is given as 14 Waffen Gren.Div.-SS (Galiz Nr 2). Unless someone knows something that I don't his unit should have been given as Galiz Nr 1.

Hope this doesn't look too pedantic,

best wishes

Mike Melnyk

Post Reply