SS Document Forgeries

German SS and Waffen-SS 1923-1945.
ghp95134
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Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by ghp95134 »

John P. Moore wrote:
[Re: Image of DoD letterhead dated 1945 .... without sender's address]

Clue - When was the US Department of Defense established?
HoffPolishLetter.jpg
Answer (for those who don't want to google):
DoD was created in 1947 as a national military establishment with a single secretary as its head to preside over the former Department of War (founded in 1789) and Department of the Navy (founded in 1798; formerly the Board of Admiralty, founded in 1780).

--source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... of_Defense

--Guy
phylo_roadking
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Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by phylo_roadking »

I have examples of documents with rubber stamps produced in POW camps after the May 1945 surrender. The POWs had such administrative supplies with them when entire units surrendered and they would have senior officers, sometimes generals, confirm late-war awards and promotions and then rubber stamp the document with whatever stamp was handy.
On a similar tack - it's been literally YEARS since I read it...I think it back in the 1970's actually, when as a teenager I first visited the IWM the year they did their big "Colditz" exhibition to run concurrently with the second series of the BBC drama...but the prisoners there, the British Contingent anyway - grabbed all THEIR forged documentation, homemade stamps etc that were in preparation on the day Colditz was liberated. On their way home IIRC they ran off "commemorative sets" of fake German travel documents for everyone!!! Just like Post Office "First Day Covers" LOL :D
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
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Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by phylo_roadking »

I have examples of documents with rubber stamps produced in POW camps after the May 1945 surrender
THAT I can understand :up: The issue with the "Schiller kennkarte" is more that there are TWO copies public...one INcomplete and one complete; so whatever other more "technical" faults there are with them - and there are MANY :D - the "stamped" copy HAS to be later than the unstamped one - the two "editions" are otherwise identical.

Some months ago I took the PGV "thumbnail" and managed to get it sized up and enhanced to THIS...

Image

Not great - BUT if you look closely
Image

Guy's "fatface" error is exactly the SAME...

But MORE importantly...THE SIGNATURE on the projectgermanveteran.com kennkarte is now UNDER the stamp! :shock:

Image

In other words - the final version John and I examined...was produced AFTER the incomplete version was posted up on projectgermanveteran.com
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
Paddy Keating

Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by Paddy Keating »

Great thread! I will dig some beauties out when I get back from vacation. The forgers are getting cheekier, though.

PK
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haen2
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Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by haen2 »

Guy also replicated my Verwundete Abzeigen, K.V.K.II, E.K.II, and Infantrie Sturm Abzeigen for me. One would swear that they are the real stuff.
He even ordered the stamps and used similar looking signatures for it. Good thing he is an honest man; he could make bundles as a criminal :D :wink: :[] :up:
If you are interested i will scan them and post them.

with a little bit of "aging" they could pass for the real things.
HN
joined forum early spring of 2002 as Haen- posts: legio :-)

Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think !
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Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by Annelie »

During my time living in New Jersey I remember that I came across a site in
Pennsylanvia which advertised that he could replicate any WWII German documents
etc. He had WWII German type writer and among other machines of the
era to assist him in this work. I remember also that he had paper from that era
also among other materials to help him.


His work was so good that I am sure many of his creations are floating around.
I wish I had kept the site bookmarked.
Annelie
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Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by phylo_roadking »

Here's an absolute gem....

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 9&t=152025
Dear All I want to know what is the modern day equivalent of the typical Axis ( specifically the SS ) typewriter. I need it to replicate documents on my Mac. thank you
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
Paddy Keating

Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by Paddy Keating »

Blaichinger_Fake#2.jpg
Here were have a pair of documents to Sepp Blaichinger of 1./SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500. It appears that Blaichinger received the Gold Wound Badge for the Battle of Drvar. He was clearly in hospital for some time as the document was made out on 27.8.1944. Then we see that he was in 1./SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600 as SS-Hascha, which would normally make him the Kompanie Spieß, and received the EK1 in February 1945, as this field-made document hand-signed by SS General Felix Steiner shows.

Wonderful ensemble, eh? As forgeries go, they're more intelligently done than a lot of the forgeries about which I am consulted from time to time. On 10.2.1945, when Felix Steiner apparently recognised the bravery of SS-Hascha Blaichinger of 1./SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600, 1./SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600 was pulling out of positions on Hill 63 on the eastern side of the Oder river in the Schwedt bridgehead above Grabow, a village on the Königsberg-Schwedt-am-Oder road. Some elements of 1. Kompanie remained dug in with elements of 2. Kompanie.

SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 did indeed spend time with III. (Germanische) SS-Panzerkorps in the late summer and the autumn of 1944 in the Baltic and the Memel but Felix Steiner was not the Corps Commander at that point, having handed over to Georg Keppler on 9.11.1943. In February 1945, SS-Obergruppenführer Steiner was commanding XI. SS-Panzerarmeee on the Oder Front.

At the end of January 1945, 1./SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600 had received their marching orders to join Otto Skorzeny’s newly-forming Division “Schwedt” in the Schwedt bridgehead on the Oder, where Skorzeny was preparing a defence against the new Soviet offensive. 1./SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600 was commanded by Hans “Fritz” Leifheit, who had just promoted Kompanie-Spieß SS-Oscha Aussenthal to SS-Hascha. The 1. Kompanie had recently returned from their mission in the Ardennes with Skorzeny’s Panzerbrigade 150 and were the only combat-ready sub-unit of the SS Para Bn.

1./SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600 was formed from the 500th's Feldausbildung und Ersatz Kompanie in October and November 1944, the combat elements of SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 having effectively ceased to exist. So, it is quite a coincidence that this chap Sepp Blaichinger ended up in an entirely new company and that this company, according to this extraordinary EK1 document, had not one but two Hauptscharführer.

Presumably this might explain why SS-Hascha Blaichinger was clearly detached from Division “Schwedt” – despite the desperate need there for experienced combat veterans like him – and sent off up north to join Felix Steiner’s XI. SS-Panzerarmee, where he evidently distinguished himself to the point that General Steiner himself rendered the horny-handed old NCO the compliment of signing this field-made EK1 document in person.

As for his fellow SS-Hauptscharführer in 1. Kompanie, Aussenthal, he was posted missing, believed drowned, on the night of 29.3.1945 when the survivors of the Zehden bridgehead withdrew across the Oder, many of them stripping naked or nearly so and swimming for their lives as the Soviet juggernaut approached.

This fellow Blaichinger was clearly quite a guy! Five wounds at Drvar! Gold Wound Badge! Either quite a guy, or a bullet magnet...or fragged by own guys. But he seems to have been quite low profile because his former OC, Leifheit, never mentioned him. So low profile, in fact, that the medical officers who reassembled our doughty Germanic hero after Drvar forgot to give him his VAiG and it fell to the Kompanie-Chef of 1./Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 to sort out this document for the brave sergeant on 27.8.1944, during a brief rest in Poland when the battalion was down to ninety effectives and 1. Kompanie was about to be dissolved.

This incredible historical document was signed by an SS-Hstuf in command of 1./SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500. There is a stamp on the document saying so! Presumably the actual commander of 1. Kompanie at the time, or what was left of it, was away. Perhaps he was on a course, learning command signals in the field or something like that and they drafted in this chap whose name begins with “Z” to hold the fort until Dröste returned. Yes, that’s the explanation. Must be. Makes sense! Trouble is, I have not been able to find a likely candidate, neither in diaries, period accounts, interview transcripts or even in the SS-Führerliste supplied by our very own John P. Moore!

Someone paid a lot of money, so I gather, for this document grouplet but they were made up - the VAiG document appears to be real - and filled in by someone with a period typewriter with the sigrunen key, a rubber unit stamp (the lines are too thick to have been made by a metal stamp) unlike any stamps on the various original documents I have studied, and a copy of Antonio Munoz's Forgotten Legions, although he slipped up in having Steiner sign it, being too ambitious with the Wound Badge document and making the recipient a top NCO. Cunning fakes nonetheless. The Steiner autograph isn't a bad effort in comparison to some I have seen.

PK
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Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by phylo_roadking »

Padddy - on the TOP document there you can see the right hand side of the paper is much more stained than the other; again, possibly removed from a period book?

But it's the SECOND, lower one that's much more obvious...

Look at the right-hand side of IT - see the series of strange little marks down that side?

That's the side of the page nearest the stritching in the spine - for those are "pressure marks" made by stitching a couple of pages down from it, pressing up a bit like the Princess's pea...UNLESS it just happens to have been folded and kept in a book right up against the stitching for many years! :D
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
Paddy Keating

Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by Paddy Keating »

Schumann2.jpg
schumann_fake.jpg
And here's another one, a Wound Badge document to SS-Rottenführer Schumann. This one bears quite a good attempt at Fritz Leifheit's signature. In fact, I suspect that the faker was inspired by the genuine assault badge document to Schumann, which is in my collection and which has been seen on the internet before. Schumann was a member of the signals platoon of both the 500 and the 600 and it recorded in the platoon Tagebuch. He received the EK2, ISAiS and NKSiB but was never wounded and never received a document for his Close Combat Clasp. The genuine document is historic in the context of the unit as it proves that Leifheit was one of the commanders of the SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl for a time, a fact sometimes denied by Siegfried Milius, who disliked Leifheit quite intensely. Again, some poor so-and-so was relieved of a substantial amount, reportedly in the region of €4,000, for this document a couple of years back. The document itself appears to be genuine but everything else about it is fake.

PK
Paddy Keating

Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by Paddy Keating »

Soldbuch_Hummel_Spitt_fake02.jpg
Soldbuch_Hummel_Spitt_fake01.jpg
Here's a wonderful paybook to Paul Spitt, who is mentioned in a couple of references, including my friend Jean-Yves Nasse's book Green Devils. Paul Spitt, who is still alive, served with several Waffen-SS units, including the SS-Jagdverbände and SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600. One of the more obvious problems with this example of creativity is the photograph, which shows Walter Hummel. This is because of a rather amusing error in Jean-Yves' book, arising from the fact that Herr Spitt, evidently fresh out of photos of himself as a dashing young soldier, sent JYN a photo of his comrade, Walter Hummel instead, without mentioning that it was Herr Hummel, and JYN duly captioned the image accordingly.

The sharp-eyed amongst you will notice some serious howlers on Page 1. Spitt was never a Hauptscharführer nor a Sturmscharführer. As for the interesting rank below it, either the forger-cum-faker was having a laugh or proved woefully ignorant of Waffen-SS ranks. It is also interesting to see that Paul Spitt was promoted from SS-Untersturmscharführer to SS-Ostuf on 15.5.1945. Perhaps Herr Spitt was serving with that chap who wrote Devil's Guard. If so, he never mentioned it to anyone who has chatted with him about his career.

PK
Paddy Keating

Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by Paddy Keating »

Hummel1.jpg
The surviving wartime print of the portrait for which Walter Hummel sat in a studio in Neustrelitz shortly after his transfer from SS-FJ-Btl 500 to SS-FJ-Btl 600. A cropped version of dubious quality appears in the "Spitt" soldbuch. Also shown is Walter Hummel's parachutist licence, with the photo that was, according to Herr Hummel, also in his soldbuch. These are old scans, hence the quality, but much better scans have since been done, although I am a bit nervous about publishing high resolution photographs or scans of original documents in my book without finding some way of making it hard for the bad boys to make better fakes. Maybe I'll overlap them or place insignia or medals on top of them to hide various crucial details.

Anyway, John Moore asked me some time ago to chime in but I've been a bit busy with various projects and with getting my head back together again after a brain stroke induced by boxing. Fortunately, the brain cells killed off were already damaged by earlier "blunt trauma" - more than thirty lesions in the brain due to boxing, motorcycle accidents, parachuting accidents and brawls - and the fresh brain cells that took over have cured what the opticians described for thirty years as a lazy left eye, resulting in eyes of equal strength and agility. So, there you go, John! Better late than never! LOL!

PK
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Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by Annelie »

Interesting thanks Paddy.
Surely the forgeries fall under something (?) where someone should be prosecuted?
Four thousand pounds isn't exactly small change. I certainly wouldn't let it go.

I am a little concerned though!
John Moore asked me some time ago to chime in but I've been a bit busy with various projects and with getting my head back together again after a brain stroke induced by boxing. Fortunately, the brain cells killed off were already damaged by earlier "blunt trauma" - more than thirty lesions in the brain due to boxing, motorcycle accidents, parachuting accidents and brawls - and the fresh brain cells that took over have cured what the opticians described for thirty years as a lazy left eye, resulting in eyes of equal strength and agility. So, there you go, John! Better late than never! LOL!
Your getting better than ever.... :D Heaven knows what to expect at the forum now. Thought you were sharp
enough before. :D
Annelie
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Paddy Keating

Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by Paddy Keating »

Thanks Annelie!

Jack's back...

LOL!

Mind you, I'm a tad saner now. Lobotomy works...
phylo_roadking wrote:Padddy - on the TOP document there you can see the right hand side of the paper is much more stained than the other; again, possibly removed from a period book?
Could be! However, the pro forma text certainly appeared to be block-printed as opposed to the laser-printing encountered on some recent fakes, in the opinion of those who examined the document and were prepared to believe that it might have been an unused blank. Some of the later documents were printed on fairly low quality paper.
But it's the SECOND, lower one that's much more obvious...

Look at the right-hand side of IT - see the series of strange little marks down that side?

That's the side of the page nearest the stitching in the spine - for those are "pressure marks" made by stitching a couple of pages down from it, pressing up a bit like the Princess's pea...UNLESS it just happens to have been folded and kept in a book right up against the stitching for many years! :D
Well-spotted! I think you are absolutely right. But, you know, fools rush in where angels fear to dance and find themselves separated from their money in short order. The only really good fake documents I can think of are the infamous Paul Conrath formal docs for the Knight's Cross and the Oakleaves to the KC, which were the subject of quite a row between the Hamburg dealer Detlev Niemann and George Petersen. The documents originated with Kai Winkler and each bore a discreet forger's mark in the form of a subtle but misshapen period. However, Niemann was recruited by Winkler to handle the sale to Petersen. That Petersen was taken in by them speaks volumes for their high quality. They were presented in genuine cassettes and can be seen in Gordon Williamson's recent reference work on the Iron Cross.

Quite a few German families have commissioned similarly well-made copies of KC documents, ostensibly to replace originals that they intended to sell. I know of one now-deceased Knight's Cross Holder estimated to have sold his documents at least three times and his KC half a dozen times from the 1950s to the early 1990s. This situation obviously involves KC documents to Waffen-SS soldiers. Formal documents for the DKiG are also a problem area. The documents I have shown here are not in this league but they serve to show that some forgers-cum-fakers are quite cunning. Even more dangerous are groupings enhanced with well-made fakes, involving original blank documents filled in using various desktop publishing methods. Close scrutiny will reveal laser or inkjet-printed scan-based unit stamp 'drop-ins' and signatures, and I suppose that typewriter inks could be tested, albeit with some risk to the document. Some fairly advanced document collectors I know have almost been taken in by such documents although there is now a growing awareness of the pitfalls.

That said, I never fail to be be amazed by the intellectual shortcomings of some of the clowns who post blatant fakes on the various forums, having spent their money without the slightest effort to study the subject or even some basic unit histories that might help them to avoid documents that could simply never have been issued by any German authority before 9.5.1945.

PK
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Re: SS Document Forgeries

Post by ghp95134 »

Paddy,

Thanks for posting those ingenuous samples of forged documents. I should only hope my efforts could eventually arise to such heights (but would ensure they could be recognized as "replacements").

--Guy
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