Germanische Officer Courses at Bad Tölz

[Regiment Norge]

Hi!

Several norwegian officers who went through Tölz were assigned to the Germanische SS Norwegen. They mainly had gone through the disabled courses at Tölz and therefor were not fit for combat duty anymore. I guess that they could fill the ranks within the Germanische SS and replace those fit for combat duty.

I do not knot the difference between SS-Ustuf and SS-Frw. Ustuf.

Regards

[Stormman]

Hi!

Several norwegian officers who went through Tölz were assigned to the Germanische SS Norwegen. They mainly had gone through the disabled courses at Tölz and therefor were not fit for combat duty anymore. I guess that they could fill the ranks within the Germanische SS and replace those fit for combat duty.

I do not knot the difference between SS-Ustuf and SS-Frw. Ustuf.

Regards

Hallo RN
Thanks for your reply. Alfons Wachtelaer was ectually SS-Ustuf. in the Germ.SS before he went to Bad-Tölz. I don't know if he had an officer rank in the Belgian Army. The officers that filled the staff of the Germanische SS-Flandern in 1943/1944 all came from the 8. an 9. Kriegs-Junkerlehrgänge at Tölz, they where young and fit Flemish officers of the Waffen-SS that probebly where used as 'propaganda' for the Waffen-SS.
Does somebody maybe have also participation lists of the 5. and 6. Lehrgänge für germanische Offiziere? Because in my re-search about Flemish SS-officers I never came across of Flemish participants of these Lehrgänge.

[Regiment Norge]

Hi !

In 1945 a number 7 course for disabled Führerbewerber as number 20. Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang started at Tölz, but these two courses never did finnish as the war ended. Have anyone seen lists of participants on these two courses? Only fragments of names are available, mainly from participants themselves.

Regards

[Stormman]

I was wondering, are all Lehrgangsteilnehmer mentioned on the lists of the 3. Lehrgang für germanische Offiziere, or where there more? Are there lists of participants of this Lehrgang when it started? Or with how many participants did this Lehrgang start?

[Regiment Norge]

Thank you very much! Very interesting documents!
What's the difference between a SS-Ustuf. or a SS-Frw.Ustuf.?
And could it be that SS-Ustuf.d.Germanische SS also where allowed for this course? Because Alfons Wachtelaer was also SS-Ustuf. in the Germanische SS, Sturmführer of the Germanische SS-Sturmbanne in Berlin.

Hi!

From a norwegian point of view I know of several Tölz participants who after Tölz was transferred to the Germanische SS Norwegen as Stormführer to their district. It seems that most of them attended courses for disabled Junker and was not fit for activ war duty anymore.

Regards

[Stormman]

I was actually wondering if you could attend the Lehrgang für germanische Offiziere if you where SS-Führer in the Germanische-SS. This was some times the case with SS-Führer of the Germanische-SS in Flanders, but I can’t tell if they where former officers in the Belgium army.
And five Flemish SS-Untersturmführer of the 8. and 9. Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgänge where assigned as Sturmbannführer, and one Adjutant for the Germanische-SS in Flanders.
As far as I know, no officer from the Lehrgänge für versehrte SS-Junker, I don’t think they where good propaganda for the eastern front.

[Regiment Norge]

I was actually wondering if you could attend the Lehrgang für germanische Offiziere if you where SS-Führer in the Germanische-SS. This was some times the case with SS-Führer of the Germanische-SS in Flanders, but I can’t tell if they where former officers in the Belgium army.
And five Flemish SS-Untersturmführer of the 8. and 9. Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgänge where assigned as Sturmbannführer, and one Adjutant for the Germanische-SS in Flanders.
As far as I know, no officer from the Lehrgänge für versehrte SS-Junker, I don’t think they where good propaganda for the eastern front.

Hi Stormman!

I can only answer your question based on my research about the norwegian participants at Tölz. As far as I know, no norwegians from Germansiche SS Norwegen (GSSN) was sent to Tölz to come back to the same unit (GSSN). War wounded and discharged norwegian members of the W-SS was sent to Tölz to participate at courses for disabled and those returned to the GSSN. Based on their degree of disabled some was actually sent to combat duty again in late 1944 and early 1945.

Regards

[John P. Moore]

This document from December 1943 lists those attending the 3.Germanische Lehrgang at Bad Tölz while at the same time assigning them to replacement units. The date of this document is unusual as the officer candidate class had already started in October.

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[John P. Moore]

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[John P. Moore]

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[John P. Moore]

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[Stormman]

Very interesting and new information for me, thanks for posting !

[Regiment Norge]

Hi!

Interesting documents John, I have not seen this before, but I wonder where the norwegians who came from Ersatzkommando Norwegen are, there should be at least 9 other norwegians there. Is there more pages to this documents???

Regards

[Stormman]

Hi!

Interesting documents John, I have not seen this before, but I wonder where the norwegians who came from Ersatzkommando Norwegen are, there should be at least 9 other norwegians there. Is there more pages to this documents???

Regards

I think so, only the helft of the Flemish participants are mentioned.

[John P. Moore]

Here are several more pages from the document that will help to answer the questions that have already been raised. I found this document on NARA microfilm publication T354, roll 302, the records of the SS-Nachrichten AuE.Rgt. On the same roll were records for the 4 Germanic Lehrgang, 11.Kriegsjunker Lehrgang, 18 Führerwerber Lehrgang and the 1, 2, 3 and 4 TFN Lehrgangs plus a variety of signal records.

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