what were the best waffen ss features????

German SS and Waffen-SS 1923-1945.
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max wiedl 3./SS Pz.Pi.Btl
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what were the best waffen ss features????

Post by max wiedl 3./SS Pz.Pi.Btl » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:32 am

ive been reading a few accounts on the waffen ss since finding this site and have come to the conclusion that they were of course "a cut above" the rest of the german army and probably every other army too...

but what made them so effective?
were they braver?
was it purly dedication/ moral/ ideaology?
were they better trained?
were their basic/ advanced tactics superiour?
did they get better equipment, or just more of it?

i know to be a good army you need a good spread of all the above but what was the waffen ss best asset? what would be the marks out of 10 for there abilities?
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Post by sid guttridge » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:32 pm

Hi Mw.....(Why do so many W-SS devotees have these ridiculously complicated and longwinded names?)

Firstly, the W-SS was not part of the German Army. It was subordinate to the Nazi Party. However, it drew all its manpower and weaponry from what would otherwise be the Army's pool and so was a drain on the Army. It also offered no original military specialities, copying those of the Army, as it did the fundamentals of its training, tactics etc.

Secondly, the Waffen-SS was a very mixed bag and in any direct comparison of all Army and all W-SS formations does not come out particularly well.

However, I presume you are talking about the Reich-raised W-SS divisions. The senior of these (not yet divisions) started the war with regular long service manpower and received mostly volunteers thereafter. The Army could not possibly do this for any signficant number of formations (only the Grossdeutschland) as, unlike the W-SS, it contained a genuine cross-section of the German population - young, old, fit, unfit, etc.. (That said, it still managed to win all Germany's major victories in WWII without any indispensable help from the W-SS!)

The Reich-raised W-SS divisions were also almost all fully mechanised from their foundation. The Army could only mechanise about 15% of its divisions.

Therefore the Reich-raised W-SS's main assets were that it was permitted by its political masters to cream off high quality volunteer manpower before the Army had access to it and it was all mechanised on Army vehicles.

There is no special mystique to the Reich-raised W-SS. Indeed, it is arguable that it added nothing to overall German military capability because every last man and rifle it possessed came from what would otherwise have been Germany Army assets.

Finally, it should not be forgotten that the W-SS was not only the beneficiary of wartime propaganda but is the continuing beneficiary of a continuous flood of new books today.

Perhaps the W-SS's greatest asset was (and is) just better PR?

Cheers,

Sid.

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Post by M.H. » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:40 pm

...Finally, it should not be forgotten that the W-SS was not only the beneficiary of wartime propaganda but is the continuing beneficiary of a continuous flood of new books today.
Can you say "SS-Groupies"? :D :D :D

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Post by Christoph Awender » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:58 pm

Interesting and rarely discussed topic about an often forgotten aspect of the german warmachine.

were they braver? Yes, they had rituals to divide the cowards from the heroes. They placed a handgrenade on the helmet of a soldier and let it explode. Did he start to cry and wimmer he went to the Heer, Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine. Did he pass the test he was accepted into the exclusive club of the Waffen-SS.

was it purly dedication/ moral/ ideaology? Of course. Not a single soldier in the Heer, Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine was fighting for the ideals of the Nazi regime.

were they better trained? Yes, they had special very secret training methods in highly secret high technological training camps exclusively for the Waffen-SS. Why train all man at high standard when it is just necessary to train a few that way.

were their basic/ advanced tactics superiour? Of course! It is the most logical thing to train just a minority of troops in good, well working tactics and let the other millions use obsolete and not working tactics.

did they get better equipment, or just more of it? Yes, each month Waffen-SS units received a wish list they had to fill out and send back to germany. If something was left after the W-SS placed its wishes the other branches received what was left.

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Post by TimoWr » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Brilliant Christoph 8)

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Post by M.H. » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:24 pm

did they get better equipment, or just more of it? Yes, each month Waffen-SS units received a wish list they had to fill out and send back to germany. If something was left after the W-SS placed its wishes the other branches received what was left.
Didn't someone here tell the story where SS soldiers got to chose their weapons first and so the SS got all the straight ones and the poor Wehrmacht all the rest??? :shock: :D

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Post by Rolf Steiner » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:29 pm

the blond hair! The blue eyes!
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Post by Christoph Awender » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:36 pm

M.H. wrote:
did they get better equipment, or just more of it? Yes, each month Waffen-SS units received a wish list they had to fill out and send back to germany. If something was left after the W-SS placed its wishes the other branches received what was left.
Didn't someone here tell the story where SS soldiers got to chose their weapons first and so the SS got all the straight ones and the poor Wehrmacht all the rest??? :shock: :D
Well, these things I learned in internet forums. Why aren´t they correct? :?

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Post by Spandau » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:42 pm

Christoph Awender wrote:Interesting and rarely discussed topic about an often forgotten aspect of the german warmachine.

were they braver? Yes, they had rituals to divide the cowards from the heroes. They placed a handgrenade on the helmet of a soldier and let it explode. Did he start to cry and wimmer he went to the Heer, Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine. Did he pass the test he was accepted into the exclusive club of the Waffen-SS.

was it purly dedication/ moral/ ideaology? Of course. Not a single soldier in the Heer, Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine was fighting for the ideals of the Nazi regime.

were they better trained? Yes, they had special very secret training methods in highly secret high technological training camps exclusively for the Waffen-SS. Why train all man at high standard when it is just necessary to train a few that way.

were their basic/ advanced tactics superiour? Of course! It is the most logical thing to train just a minority of troops in good, well working tactics and let the other millions use obsolete and not working tactics.

did they get better equipment, or just more of it? Yes, each month Waffen-SS units received a wish list they had to fill out and send back to germany. If something was left after the W-SS placed its wishes the other branches received what was left.
Ave Christoph,

You get a Forum medal for that post! :D :D

Vale,

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Post by VonderSaar » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:33 pm

Christoph Awender wrote:Interesting and rarely discussed topic about an often forgotten aspect of the german warmachine.


was it purly dedication/ moral/ ideaology? Of course. Not a single soldier in the Heer, Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine was fighting for the ideals of the Nazi regime.

@{ @{ @{ @{ @{ @{ @{ @{ @{ @{ @{ :roll:

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Post by VonderSaar » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:40 pm

fd

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Post by Max Wünsche » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:49 pm

Christoph Awender wrote:
Interesting and rarely discussed topic about an often forgotten aspect of the german warmachine.


was it purly dedication/ moral/ ideaology? Of course. Not a single soldier in the Heer, Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine was fighting for the ideals of the Nazi regime.
What a complete bunch of ****... And you are talking on behalf of each and every German Soldat I assume...!

I find it laughable how some people can speak on behalf of millions just like that...
Anyone want to but and Italian rifle? Never fired and only dropped once...haha :-D

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Post by Tom Houlihan » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:58 pm

Max Wünsche wrote:What a complete bunch of ****... And you are talking on behalf of each and every German Soldat I assume...!

I find it laughable how some people can speak on behalf of millions just like that...
OH! The irony! :D

Max, before you blow a gasket, scroll back through a few of Christoph's posts. That statement was so tongue-in-cheek, it was coming out his ear!

I can only imagine how hard it was for him to actually sit and type that drivel!! He probably took straight to his sick-bed when he was done! :D :D
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the best and the first ?

Post by haen1 » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:19 pm

Christoph, that was great !!! have been on and off the web for some days, so missed it at first.
Of course we got the best, the first, the nicest, etc. :D :D
So here it goes: Short military laugh: "Ha zwo drei, Ha" !
HN.

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Post by Tom Houlihan » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:29 pm

Actually, this might be a good time to clear this up. From what I've read and heard, the relationships between officers/enlisted in the Waffen-SS were quite as "proper" as they were in the Heer. To what extent was this actually true.

I can see where this could have been of value in combat, but I can also see where it could easily have been abused. Any examples of either available?
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