SS in France,, help please

[J.C]

Hi there,

I am looking for information on SS that were posted in France, what ss units were involved in mid 43 to 45?? sorry to ask such a vague question but i don't have enough information to ask specifics. However, any info on the SS in France that you can provide will help.

Also, if a German who grew up and lived in Hungary and worked for the Hungarian mounted police got drafted by the SS, what SS unit(s) would have he possibly been involved in?

I know there are many informative people on this massage board i would greatly appreciate your help. If you need more information to answer these questions or any clarification please PM me or just lave a question here.
Thank you
J.C

[Brian67]

3. SS Totenkopf was in France juring the Western offencive 1940/41 and from Oktober 1942 till beginning of 1943

[Bittrich]

J.C.

If you are refering to the Waffen-SS then the 1st SSLAH, 2nd SS Das Reich, 9th SS Hohenstaufen, 10th SS Frundsberg, 12th SS Hitlerjugend, and 17th SS Gotz von Berlichingen, SS Divisions were in France prior to and or during the Normandy Campaign.

I could have missed one since I'm only going off of memory so if anyone sees a glaring omission please fell free to correct me.

If you mean regular SS troops such as Gestapo units or Allgemein SS then I can not be of much help.

I imagine that the Totenkopf Division (3rd SS) was in France for refitting because I do not recall them being used in combat.

As for the Hungarian troops I'd suggest checking out Marc Rickmenspoels book Waffen-SS The Encyclopedia. It has a large section on foreign nations that participated in the Waffen-SS. I believe there were a few Waffen-SS divisions of Hungarians, but off hand I don't remember which ones.

[Brian67]

I imagine that the Totenkopf Division (3rd SS) was in France for refitting because I do not recall them being used in combat.

That's right, Bittrich. After leaving the pocket of Demjansk 3rd SS came to the south of France for refitting.
In 1940 they fought in the north of France.

[Dackel Staffel]

Hi,

The 13 Waffen-Gebirgs-Division der SS "Handschar" ( Kroatische Nr.1) was in France in 1943.

So long.

[Bittrich]

Brian67,

Thank you for the clarification. That was what I thought, but I was only going on memory.


Dackel Staffel,

The Handschar Division in 1943, was it also there to refit?

[J.C]

Great thank you so much everyone!!

J.C.



If you mean regular SS troops such as Gestapo units or Allgemein SS then I can not be of much help.



ones.

To be perfectly honest i thought there was only type of SS but, would i be correct to assume the gestapo were the secret police that didn't see any battle?? and the Allgemein were battle units?? I don't know which type of SS he (the person i am researching) was. that's why i have to ask such vague questions. Though one of my sources insists he was not involved with any SS unit that had hungarians in it. WE do know that he died in France in the last month of the war(in europe). and the war ended in May??

thanks again!!
J.C

[Bittrich]

J.C.

The problem is that by 1945 the Anglo American allies were in Germany As far as I know there were no combat operations in France after September 1944. Was he captured by the Allies and eventually executed?

As for the Waffen-SS units the list I provided were to my knowledge the only ones present from the time you stated.

As for the Gestapo you are correct that they did not fight. Combat troops of the SS were the Waffen-SS. The Allgemein SS were not combat troops.

Good luck in your search.

[Laurent Daniel]

The problem is that by 1945 the Anglo American allies were in Germany As far as I know there were no combat operations in France after September 1944.

The combat ended in France in May 45 when Germany surrendered. From September 44 till the end, there were not anymore major combats as the Allies were in Germany, but several ports of the French coasts were still occupied by entrenched German troops:

- Dunkerque (Admiral Frisius), surrendered on May 9, 45.
- Lorient (General Fahrmbacher), surrendered on May 8, 45.
- Saint Nazaire (General Junck) , surrendered on May 7, 45.
- La Rochelle (Vice-admiral Schirlitz) surrendered on May 9, 45.
- Le Verdon/Royan/Oleron, blocking the liberated port of Bordeaux, surrendered between 13 and 30 April, 45, after a costly assault of French troops (General Larminat).

By leaving those troops behind while retreating, the Germans created a huge logisitic problem to the Allies. All the French ports were not accessible, except Le Havre and Cherbourg, both completely destroyed, and till the liberation of Antwerp, all the supplies for the advancing troops were going through the overloaded Normandy artificial ports, creating some irregularities in the deliveries.

If I remember well, Patton, furious of being stopped by lack of supplies, said something like "My men can move and eat grass, but my tanks can't move without benzine".

As far as I know, there were no Waffen SS units in those pockets, only Heer and Kriegsmarine. So, if a Waffen SS died in the French territory in 1945, either he was killed while clearing the mine fieldS as a POW or he was executed.

[J.C]

Thanks again for the replys=)

Would it be possible that he was pushed back by the allies into germany from france?? I will have to research when he was last spoken to and where he departed to after that date then i can provide some more detailed information.

To my knowledge he was never captured.

Also, what would a portrait of the waffen SS look like? would they be clad in battle gear? or would they be in uniform? or if the portrait was taken of the soldier in the SS uniform is that a gestapo?? (hoe that's not too confusiing)

Thanks again
J.C

[Laurent Daniel]

If you have a photo of him, I strongly recommend you to post it in this forum, there are here quite a number of specialists who will tell you a lot of things just by looking at the uniform, the collar tags, the insignias, etc...

Concerning SS uniforms, you should do a bit of research, numerous ressources available on Internet.
Start with this one:
http://www.feldgrau.com/ss.html

[Bittrich]

Laurent Daniel,

Thanks for the clarification. I failed to account for the port cities.

[JEROME Georges]

T Division in 1940 moved through France till Villefranche sur Saône (next Lyon in South East) (TK IR 1).

Georges

[JEROME Georges]

a number of ost bat (SS Osturk. Verbande ?) were stationned in France

Turkmène bat 10,12, 16, 18 mainly in South East

Georgian bat 822, 823, 824 in South in 1944

Georgian bat 795 in Normandy in june 44

Armenian bat 812, 813, 814 and 815 on the meditteranean french coast

Azerbaijan : 2 bataillons in West of France

Georges

[alan newark]

Hi all

Good question about the SS in France. Well done all for all such helpfull replies to our brother out there.

Reckon we need clarification, though, about the Ost Bat units.....I have, for long years as many of you know, been trying to confirm or disprove a lingering rumour that the 822nd Georgia Infantry Battalion were, in 1945, when they were stationed on the Dutch island of Texel, a SS auxiliary unit. A counter rumour has it that SS anti-partisan troops were used to quell the 822nd Battalion's 1945 mutiny on Texel.

Bit off-topic but it would be interesting to know if anyone has firm, reliable, information as to which of the Ost Bat units in the West, in 1944 and 1945, were SS -linked?

Besten and take care all

Alan Newark