Differences between SS and Waffen-SS...

German SS and Waffen-SS 1923-1945.
JoseFrancis
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Differences between SS and Waffen-SS...

Post by JoseFrancis »

What's the difference between those two?

My apologies for my ignorance. :oops:
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Gebirgsjaeger
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Post by Gebirgsjaeger »

VERY very basically:

The Waffen-SS was a fighting outfit, the SS or better Allgemeine-SS was a political outfit which also guarded the concentration camps (Totenkopfverbände) and had many sub-organizations (SD...).
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Post by Rob - WSSOB »

SS KZ Guard garrison (Totenkopfwachsturmbanne). were technically part of the Waffen-SS (per Himmler’s April 1941 order); they wore W-SS uniforms and carrying W-SS soldbuchs. The extent to which "frontline" W-SS rotated into the KZ guard duty and "Allgemeine" KZ guards rotated into frontline W-SS units is a matter of contentious debate but is estimated by historians like Wolfgang Sofsky to be at least 10,000.
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Post by greenhorn »

So out of all these chaps, 1% of the Waffen SS pulled KZ duty... doesn't make them very culpable as KZers in my opinion. Obviously I'm not refering to their other activities in theatre...

"In SS-V Service, 1939: 35,000+
In Waffen-SS Service, 1940: 50,000+
In Waffen-SS Service, 1941: 150,000+
In Waffen-SS Service, 1942: 230,000+
In Waffen-SS Service, 1943: 450,000+
In Waffen-SS Service, 1944: 600,000+
In Waffen-SS Service, 1945: 830,000+
In Waffen-SS Service, Total: 1,000,000+
Waffen-SS Desertions, 1939-1945: ??
Waffen-SS KIA/MIA, 1939-1945: 250,000
Waffen-SS WIA, 1939-1945: 400,00
Waffen-SS Casualties, 1939-1945: 650,000+ " to quote feldgrau.com
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Post by Nibelung »

I thought that the camp guards remained more or less the same (at least in memories of the people inprisoned in camps one get's the impression, that the guards were the same all the time), they shifted between camps, but that was all...I hope I'm not sayin' something stupid again.

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Post by ChadCrompton »

Off the top of my head; the Allegemeine-SS (general SS) was the Third Reich's bureaucracy, police force (secret and uniformed), intelligence (1944-all German handled by SD, after absolution of Abwehr), the supplier of KZ guards, and many other so called political tasks and functions. There were even an SS archaeology group (SS-Anhernbe). Basically the A-SS handled all matters deemed administrative, thus being the backbone for the efficiency of the Waffen-SS. Interesting enough by 1945 its recorded that only 10,000 served in the A-SS during the last years of World War II.

The Waffen-SS' premier divisions served as elite mobile tank units, with integrated mechanized infantry (panzergrenadiers). The remainder of the W-SS divisions were for the most part were equipped with the equipment of a 2nd rate landwehr division. Though some secondary SS units did prove there worthiness in combat. In German Waffen means weapon, so think of the Waffen-SS as the Weapon/and or Armed SS. Germans Volksdeutsche, Non-"Aryan" foreigners and just about every nationality you can think of has had members apart of the W-SS, whether for military (SS-Cossack Calvary units, etc.) value or propaganda (BFK-British Freikorps, etc.) or even a mix of both. Its estimated that anywhere from 900,000 - 1.5 million men served in WWII Germany and abroad.

93

Do some reading on the SS, very interesting stuff. I've just made a brief intro into both segments of the SS, as in all things in life, theres more to it if you look. These are just brief introductory sketches of an extremly interesting portion of German and world military history.
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Post by sid guttridge »

Hi Jose,

The entire SS was a political creation of the Nazi Party.

Within it there were numerous specialisations, of which the largest eventually grew to be the Waffen-SS. There was some degree of cross-transference between most branches of the SS, so it was clearly one organisation, not several.

The Waffen-SS had no military justification for its existence as it offered no new specialisations not already developed by the German Army to a very high standard. Although many Waffen-SS units fought well at the front, their reason for existing was essentally political - they initially offered an example of blood sacrifice by the Nazi Party and later a heavily armed counterweight to the politically conservative army officer corps, which was the source of the most serious threats to the Nazi Party's hold on power.

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Post by Sebastian Pye »

One thing I've often wondered is if waffen-ss men were all convinced national-socialists? (note Im not talking about atrocities here)
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Post by sid guttridge »

Hi Sebastian,

Due to the diversity of its membership, not all the Waffen-SS's men were or could be card carrying National Socialists.

For a start Hitler considered National Socialism to be the preserve of Germanic peoples. Non-Germanic recruits joining the Waffen-SS did so for separate nationalist reasons and were called "volunteers".

When the Waffen-SS began to resort to conscription of Volksdeutsch in countries outside the Reich in early 1943 all bar active anti-Nazis were swept up.

Even numbers of Reich Germans who were not convinced National Socialists found themselves conscripted into the Waffen-SS after Himmler was appointed head of the Replacement Army in late July 1944.

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Post by Nibelung »

The Waffen-SS had no military justification for its existence as it offered no new specialisations not already developed by the German Army to a very high standard.
just like the marines in the USA, don't you agree?

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Post by sid guttridge »

Hi Nibelung,

The US Marines have a long, independently developed, expertise in amphibious operations that the US Army does not. The Waffen-SS offered no such specialisation that distinguished it from the German Army or the other armed services.

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Sid.
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Post by Nibelung »

Why do you allways have to right? :D Well, what about NKVD divisions?
There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people. - Heinz Guderian
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Post by sid guttridge »

Hi Nibelung,

If only................

I know nothing about NKVD divisions.

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Post by Nibelung »

i'm not 100% on the divisional levels of NKVD :oops: , but they too were commited to fighting the enemy.

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Nibelung
There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people. - Heinz Guderian
-- Sine doctrina vita est quasi mortis imago. --
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