Slovenia and Waffen-SS

German SS and Waffen-SS 1923-1945.
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Kocjo
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Slovenia and Waffen-SS

Post by Kocjo » Tue Apr 01, 2003 12:35 pm

Of all units of W-SS were these units present in Slovenia during WWII.:
- SS-Wehrgeologen-Abteilung 500,
- SS-Fall.Jg.Abt. 500,
- SS-FE-Btl. 5,
- SS-FE-Btl. 7,
- SS-FE-Btl. 11,
- SS-FE »Westland«,
- SS-Wach-Btl. »Triest«,
- SS- und W-SS Unterführer-Schule »Laibach«,
- SS-Sonderstandarte »Untersteiermark« ,
- SS-Sonder-Rgt. 1 »Wäreger«,
- SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 1 »LSSAH«,
- SS-Rgt. »Wiesland«
- SS-Kriegsberichter-Abt. »Kurt Eggers« (sub-unit »Adria«),
- 7. SS-Frw.Geb.Div. »Prinz Eugen«,
- 9. SS-Pz.Div. »Hohenstaufen«,
- 11. SS-Frw.Pz.Gren.Div. »Nordland«,
- 13. Waffen-Geb.Div. d. SS »Handschar«,
- 14. Waffen-Gren.Div. d. SS,
- 16. SS-Pz.Gren.Div. »Reichsführer-SS«
- 24. Waffen-Geb.Karstjäger.Div. d. SS,
- 31. Waffen-Gren.Div. d. SS,
- II. SS-Pz.Korp.,
- III. SS-Pz.Korp.,
- XV. SS-Kosaken-Kav.Korp.,
- SS-unit Prinz von Paulus,
- SS-Sturm-Btl. (perhaps are these two units the same).

Where here any units I don't know about it?

Second question is about the SS-Rgt. Wiesland. It was present on 1941 in a great battle of Drazgose, between the Germans and Slovenian guerilla. I know these isn't the same unit as SS-Rgt. Westland or could be the same unit?

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Post by Marko » Wed Apr 02, 2003 5:48 am

Reinforced SS-PGR1 (I./SS-Pz.AR1, 1./SS-PJA1, SS-Pz.Pi.Btl.1, SS-Stug.Abt.1) plus there were also several SS-Pol.Rgt.s deployed in Slovenia to combat the partisans.

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Post by Kocjo » Wed Apr 02, 2003 6:45 am

Marko, I know these SS-Pol.Rgt. were in Slovenia (9., 10., 13., 14., 15., 17., 25., 28. SS-Pol.Rgt.), but the SS-Pol.Rgt. weren't part of W-SS, but were unter RSHA.

From where are you from?

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W-SS in Slovenia

Post by MAXIS » Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:40 pm

SS-WACHT-BATAILLON "TRIEST": it's POLIZEI-FREIWILLIGEN-BATAILLON "TRIEST"; is NOT Waffen-SS unit, but POLIZEI.

SS-SONDERSTANDARTE "UNTERSTEIERMARK": it's Wehrmannschaft-Regiment "Untersteiermark". NOT Waffen-SS. Formed by SA; then by POLIZEI; then assigned to Volksturm;

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Max

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Post by Kocjo » Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:56 pm

Thanks Maxis for SS-Wacht-Btl. Triest. You must be right.

I add SS-Sonderstandarte "Untersteiermark" to list of W-SS unit in Slovenia, because:
- unit was under the authority of SS,
- it was a militay unit for combat purposes,
- CO and NCO were veteran-soldiers of W-SS and
- combat-ready members of this unit were send to regular W-SS unit.

Soo, you could consider this unit as a transitional W-SS unit. Or not?

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W-SS in Slovenia

Post by MAXIS » Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:17 pm

Kocjo

Polizei-Regimenter were sumitted NOT to RSHA, but Hauptamt Ordnungspolizei

RSHA controlled GESTAPO, SD and Grenzpolizei (Heydrich)
H-ORPO controlled Schutzpolizei, Gendarmerie, TeNo, Feuerschutzpolizei and Schuma (Daluege)

POLIZEI-REGIMENT 9 NOT operated in Slovenia: on January 1945 a NEW
Polizei-Regiment 9 was projected with I/"ALPENVORLAND" in Alto Adige (Sudtirol) and recalling II and III/"ALPENVORLAND" from Istria; those bataillons operated autonomously in Carso area and Istria (within ITALIAN border NOT Slovenia). Those bataillons remained in Istria and, pratically, never became part of Polizei-Regiment 9 (maybe formally only).

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Max



Costituito nell'Italia settentrionale il 29 Gennaio 1945, ricevette la numerazione ordinale dell'omonimo reggimento, disciolto in Russia nel Luglio 1944; nelle intenzioni del comando tedesco, il reparto avrebbe dovuto mutuare i battaglioni dal *POLIZEI-REGIMENT “ALPENVORLAND”, che in tal modo veniva ad essere disciolto. In realtà, quest'ultimo finì per privarsi unicamente del solo I battaglione rimasto dislocato in Alto Adige, dopo il trasferimento sul Carso dei battaglioni II e III: evidentemente le oggettive difficoltà di procedere ad un richiamo dei due reparti, comunque indispensabili in un settore del fronte così delicato, bloccarono lo sviluppo del nuovo Polizei-Regiment 9, la cui consistenza, a tutto il Marzo 1945, era limitata al reparto comando ed al II battaglione.
Con tale organico il reggimento affrontò le ultime settimane del conflitto e finì per arrendersi senza aver preso parte ad operazioni di rilievo.

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ERROR-ERROR

Post by MAXIS » Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:21 pm

Pls DONT consider ITALIAN TEXT
My error.
Thks

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Untersteiermark

Post by MAXIS » Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:01 pm

Kocjo

Untersteiermark/Waffen-SS: I agreed, but transitionally only and because it's operated under HSSPF XVII Alpenland (all together Waffen-SS, Orpo, Sipo units...).
Formally was NOT Waffen-SS.

Till to 1942 Wehrmannshaft was a Selbstschutz unit; during 1942 fm this selbstschuz were formed 4 bataillons: 2 fm Oberkrain (Goreiniska in Celjie e Maribor) and 2 fm Untersteiermark (Stajerska, in Bled e Kranj).

On March 44 only they formed the Wehrmannschaft-Regiment "Untersteiermark".

You right, there were NCO fm Waffen-SS and Orpo into the regiment but, on my opinion, this is not enough to consider like a Waffen-SS unit: in Alpenvorland (Trento provincia) germans formed a so-called Corpo di Sicurezza Trentino (CST) an anti-partisan unit with CO and NCO fm Waffen-Ss and Orpo: CST (Trientiner Sicherungsverbande) operated under KdO Bozen and was trained and armed under waffen-ss and orpo standards: but NEVER become part of Waffen-SS.

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Max

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"Prinz von Poulus"

Post by MAXIS » Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:22 pm

Kocjo

I think the unit you called Prinz von Poulus is POLIZEI-BATAILLON "PAULUS", fpn 15571, originated from POULUS VERBANDE, formed in Greece and retired in Slovenia on December 44/January 45.
Re-organized in Lubiana, it's possible received volksdeutsche fm Slovenia

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Max

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Post by Kocjo » Fri Apr 04, 2003 10:26 pm

Max, you said:
those bataillons operated autonomously in Carso area and Istria (within ITALIAN border NOT Slovenia).
Are you refering on today's border or border before WWII?

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Kocjo
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italian/slovenian border

Post by MAXIS » Sat Apr 05, 2003 10:32 am

Kocjo

Obviously I refer to italian/slovenian border BEFORE the end of the war: particularly BEFORE April 1941: Istria and Carso assigned to Italy after World War I; I don't consider as "Italy" Lubiana "provincia" annexed to Italy after invasion of Jugoslavia.

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Max

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Post by Kocjo » Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:46 am

Maxis
as you are Italian, you could help me with some problem considering KWB (Karst-Wehr-Btl.). I have data, that this unit never got west from valley of river Soca (Isonzo in Italian). Where in northern Italy (supposibly) was this unit opereted?

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Kocjo
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karstwehr

Post by MAXIS » Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:25 pm

Well, I suppose you refer to Karstwehr BATAILLON (not Karstjager Brigade/Division).

Effectivly KWB, operated on the west side of Isonzo from late August to mid November 1943.
Particularly, during last days of August 1943, bataillon located west of Tarvisio and from September 9 attacked italians units in Pontebba
Ugovizza e Malborghetto (4^/KWB), to secure the road Tarvisio-Gemona.

Late September 43 2^ e 3^/KWB operated near Saga e Canale against italian & slovenian partisans; part of bataillon operated also around Predil Pass on October 1943.
From 26 October 1943 KWB located all the kp in Saga to prepare transfer in Val Baccia on the east side of Isonzo.
From 14 November KWB begin to locate elements near Piedicolle (east of Tolmino).

As I knows this was the only "trip" of the KWB on the west side of Isonzo.

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Max

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Post by Kocjo » Sat Apr 05, 2003 2:19 pm

Thanks Max for your's data.

See ya,
Kocjo
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Re: Slovenia and Waffen-SS

Post by tigre » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:33 am

Helloto all :D; after a while, a complement ..............................

Brutal and incompetent. Battalion of SS-Karstwehr (*) 1943-1944

The area of ​​operations. Coast of the Adriatic.

What was this battalion of the SS-Karstwehr, whose soldiers were able to act so cruelly? To answer this question, it is useful to take a brief look at the area of ​​operations where the SS-Karstwehr deployed: the Adriatic coastal zone. It was caused by the capitulation of Italy in September 1943 and was temporarily maintained until the end of the war. Most likely, the area of ​​operations was connected in some way to the Reich or was even completely annexed. At the end of 1944, almost 2.1 million people lived in this melting pot between central, southern and southeastern Europe: Italians, Slovenes, Croats and Germans. Italy had annexed most of the territory after the First World War and pursued a radical policy of Italianization during the fascist government. Ethnic tensions between Italians, Croats and Slovenes broke out in World War II, when the partisan movement took hold and the Italian army responded with strong countermeasures. After the surrender of Italy in September 1943, Tito's communist partisans briefly took over the control and established the so-called Kobariška Republika (Republic of Kobarid). This was just a short episode. Through several large-scale military operations, the Germans finally expelled the partisans from their domain and consolidated their own power in the newly created area of ​​operations of the Adriatic coast.

When National Socialist Germany had a special political interest in a territory occupied during World War II, it was not under military administration, but under civil administration. This was also the case in the coastal operations area of ​​the Adriatic, where the Gauleiter of Carinthia Friedrich Rainer was named "Supreme Commissar". The superior leader of the SS and the police (Höhere SS-und Polizeiführer) on the Adriatic coast, SS Gruppenführer Odilo Globocznik, was responsible for all police tasks and, therefore, also for the battle against the partisans. With his staff, he had previously led in Poland the "Aktion Reinhardt", that is, the systematic extermination of Jews in the area. From there, Globocznik also brought a command of about 100 men: the notorious "Abteilung R", where the "R" meant "Reinhardt". This was responsible for the persecution of the Jews, but was also used again and again in the "anti-partisan struggle". For the defense against a possible Allied invasion, General Ludwig Kübler was responsible for the area, an energetic personality, who was brutally opposed to the action of the guerrillas.

German policy in the Adriatic coastal area was characterized by a classic "divide-et-impera" ("divide and conquer") and put each ethnic group against each other. The Italian administration remained in existence, although its influence was gradually suppressed. Thus, the Germans withdrew the Italianization measures of the interwar period, but did not offer the Slovenes or the Croats a real political alternative. A burden for the local population in this context also meant the settlement of some 30,000 Cossacks and their families in "band centers" in Friuli in the autumn of 1944. At that time, the Adriatic coastal area was one of the few rear territories inside the cracked German Reich.

(*) from Karst, German name of the Slovenian region of Carso.

Source: Militärgeschichte · Zeitschrift für historische Bildung · Ausgabe 1/2017.

Cheers. Raúl M 8).
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