Tirpitz in Norway.

German Kriegsmarine 1935-1945.
finnwiking
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Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by finnwiking »

Hi. I am a new member that is into 'paper items'. I have a sterbebild/death catd for a KM sailor who died in Varangerfjord and is buried in Botn-Rognan, Norway. He was the holder of the High Seas Fleet War Badge. He died on 25 September 1944. The Tirpitz was attacked in an air raid on 15 September 1944. Could this sailor have been a crew member and died of his wounds ten days later? Varangerfjord is near Kirkenes but I don't know if this is where the Tirpitz was. I would appreciate any help. John.
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pak
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by pak »

Hello!

Tirpitz was still in it's pen in Kåfjord near Alta at that time.

It is much more probable that the sailor was on one of the ships running convoys to and from Kirkenes. Kirkenes was the "supply center" for the German mountain army fighting on the Litza front, and was all but destroyed by russian bombing attacks. The convoys was also attacked heavily by the russians.
/pak
finnwiking
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by finnwiking »

Thanks. Now I am wondering if Varangerfjord was a Medical Clearing Station for Altenfjord. It will probably be another unsolved mystery. Interesting all the same. Keeps my mind working.
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pak
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by pak »

finnwiking wrote:Thanks. Now I am wondering if Varangerfjord was a Medical Clearing Station for Altenfjord. ....... Keeps my mind working.
It actually got my mind working :[] :[] :[]

I really would not think so. Although I don't _know_ that. Because I have not found any information on that subject.
But the geography of the area will deny such a setup, even today it is by the shortest route 400 km from Alta to Varangerbotn (at the bottom of Varangerfjorden). The other route to use is 500 km.

Alta had a hospital, used at least on April 3rd, when Tirpitz had 113 dead and 284 wounded after "Operation Tungsten". The destroyers of the 4th Destroyer Flotilla was there, with their capasity to handle wounded. Also after Tungsten the Germans sent the hospitalship "Humbold" to Kåfjord to assist. AFAIK it was not present on the 15th.

When the attack on the September 15th "only" resulted in 15 wounded an 5 dead, it is more than likely that the Tirpitz handled the wounded in it's own sickbay or other locally accessible resources.

And when there was a soviet attack on german ships in Varangerfjord on the 25th, sinking one ship (V 6101/Gauleiter Bohle) and damaging four others (V 6105, F 152, V 6110 and R 309), it is more than likely that the sailor died in this attack.
/pak
NASAAN101
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by NASAAN101 »

Hay guy,
Dumb question, kind of! When Tirptiz was attacked by the midget submarines how are was Scharnhorst from her and could she have gotten to her in time or at best could she have chased them out?
NIKKI
The mighty beast is wounded, a Swordfish torpedoed the steering gear, with rudder's jammed..is his Achilles Heel with... K.G.5 and Rodney closing in for the kill". From "You Must Sink The Bismarck" on youtube..
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pak
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by pak »

NASAAN101 wrote:Hay guy,
Dumb question, kind of! When Tirptiz was attacked by the midget submarines how are was Scharnhorst from her and could she have gotten to her in time or at best could she have chased them out?
NIKKI
In my opinion, no commander in his right mind would take a capital ship like Scharnhorst into a narrow fjord with no or little room to manoeuvre in, to try to fight an unknown enemy.

Scharnhorst was actually one of the targets of Operation Source (the midget submarine attack), together with Lützow and Tirpitz.
She left her pen i Kåfjord, not far from Titptz' pen, the day before the attack to do target practice on naval targets. When the commander of Scharnhorst heard of the attack, he took the ship into Langfjorden, some 20 km away from Kåfjord.

The midget submariens was engaged both with guns from the ships in the fjord, and with depthcharges from a launch from one of the destroyers in the fjord.
/pak
NASAAN101
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by NASAAN101 »

OK, i wouldv'e thorugh they were together, i mine in the same area, and not that far apart..
NIKKI
The mighty beast is wounded, a Swordfish torpedoed the steering gear, with rudder's jammed..is his Achilles Heel with... K.G.5 and Rodney closing in for the kill". From "You Must Sink The Bismarck" on youtube..
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Simon Orchard
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by Simon Orchard »

This was almost certainly the attack on the 25th Sept. by Soviet MTBs and aircraft against a small convoy of ships in Varangerfjord escorted by the 61 Vorposten flottille. That this sailor had the HSF does not mean he was still serving on a capital ship when he died.
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by NASAAN101 »

Guys,
The attack my the midget submarines in 43 against Triptiz, what changes could scharnhorst have protected her.. As far as being in the same pen.
NIKKI
The mighty beast is wounded, a Swordfish torpedoed the steering gear, with rudder's jammed..is his Achilles Heel with... K.G.5 and Rodney closing in for the kill". From "You Must Sink The Bismarck" on youtube..
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Simon Orchard
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by Simon Orchard »

NASAAN101 wrote:Guys,
The attack my the midget submarines in 43 against Triptiz, what changes could scharnhorst have protected her.. As far as being in the same pen.
NIKKI
It wasn't the job of Scharnhorst or any other capital ship in the fleet anchorage but that of the patrol craft and ASW forces assigned to do just that, the UJ, R, VP and hafenschütz flottillen
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by NASAAN101 »

No, what they should have done was move scharny and trip, the moment they know something was going down.. and Put both of them together, in another pen. If i came across as i pain, i'm sorry.. But that just how i feel ok..
NIKKI
The mighty beast is wounded, a Swordfish torpedoed the steering gear, with rudder's jammed..is his Achilles Heel with... K.G.5 and Rodney closing in for the kill". From "You Must Sink The Bismarck" on youtube..
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Regiment Norge
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by Regiment Norge »

Hi!

Here is a link to av TV documentary from Norway about the midget submarine attack on Tirpitz in the Kåfjord fjord.


http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/61866


Regards
Regiment Norge
RandJS
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by RandJS »

Hi All,

Thanks for the link. A very interesting documentary.

Does anyone know how many VP would normally be at the anchorage? What about other types of (smaller) support vessels?

Thanks
Rand
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by NASAAN101 »

I did understand what they were saying.. but I've always like triptiz always..
NIKKI
The mighty beast is wounded, a Swordfish torpedoed the steering gear, with rudder's jammed..is his Achilles Heel with... K.G.5 and Rodney closing in for the kill". From "You Must Sink The Bismarck" on youtube..
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pak
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Re: Tirpitz in Norway.

Post by pak »

RandJS wrote:Hi All,

Thanks for the link. A very interesting documentary.

Does anyone know how many VP would normally be at the anchorage? What about other types of (smaller) support vessels?

Thanks
Rand
I can't give any specific number for VP's, but I can give what I have found about what was around at the time for Operation Source (Sept. 43).

What I have found is:
  • - Thetis - former Harald Hårfagre, a flakcruiser
  • - 7 destroyers - 4th Destroyer Flotilla
  • - Approx. 10 VP's and barges
  • - Nordmark - supply ship
  • - Neumark (repairship) and C. J. Larsen (tanker) - close by in another fjord
  • - a number of other vessels like Nebelkuttern (Smokecutters - used to lay smoke in the fjord when attacked by planes)
This list probably contains errors, but it is the best I can do.
/pak
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