Adriatic MTBs actions 1944-1945

German Kriegsmarine 1935-1945.
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Enrico Cernuschi
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Adriatic MTBs actions 1944-1945

Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Sat May 26, 2007 12:44 pm

Hello Gentlemen,

here is a typical mission impossible.

There were some clashes between coastal fores in the Adriatic Sea in 1944-1945.

During the following ones the Royal Navy claimed the following results:

11-12 Oct. 1944 off Lissa (Vir) Is. six German MFPs sunk.

13-13 Feb. 1945 off Fiume three German MFPs sunk.

6-7 March 1945 Arsa channel (Istria) a merchant ship sunk.

17-18 March 1945 off Caorle a German MFP sunk

12-13 March 1945 Arsa channel two German MFPs and a tug sunk.

9-10 April 1945 Arsa channel four German MFPs sunk; the same night off Caorle three German MFPs sunk.

11-12 April 1945 Istria three German MFPs and two S-boats sunk

11-12 April 1945 off Caorle three German MFPs sunk

12-13 April 1945 off Caorle three German MFPs sunk

16-17 April 1945 off Trieste three German MFPs and five barges sunk


As I was unable to find any German or Italian vessel lost or damged on these dates and places :[] may someone (Peter K. maybe) give me some confirmation or I have to suspect it was all British propaganda Battle of Britain style? :D

Bye

EC
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Post by ptdockyard » Sat May 26, 2007 2:18 pm

Are you implying that the RN impression of a loud, confusing battle at night is anything but infallible? :shock:

I always thought those figures looked a little inflated. Have you checked Groener's listings on MFPs?
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Enrico Cernuschi
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Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Sat May 26, 2007 11:57 pm

Hellp PT

one time is possible, two too, three maybe, but ten!
And to be unable to give the ships sunk a name fifty years after the action is more and more suspect.

I checked the Greoner and I was unable to find a single name or boat. The only hope are the SKL Diaries.

Bye

EC


PS I tried some times to enter in that web site you proposed to me, but the damned procedure repulsed always me.
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Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Sun May 27, 2007 10:59 am

Hello Gentlemen,

by a cross examination I was able to discover that on

11/12 Oct. 1944 three (not six) German MFP were sunk. They were F 625, F 923 and F 942.

Nothing else emerged.
Suggestions?

EC
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Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Thu May 31, 2007 10:43 am

Spirit of Peter K. enlight us, please!


EC
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Post by Peter K. » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:55 am

Hello ENRICO!

A long time ago since my last posting ....

I don´t have too much time right now, but I found the following at the KTB SKL:

11./12.10.1944
3 MFP, 1 motor sailing vessel and 1 I-boat were attacked W of Vir by 8 enemy s-boats. According to Haka Zara all 3 MFP´s were sank, the motor sailing vesssel was beached and only the lonely I-boat reached Privlaka.
One enemy MTB and one MGB was also sunk, possibly one additional MTB. 3 officers and 41 men of the sunken MFP´s reached Zara on 13. or 14.10.1944.

Also in the night 11./12.10.1944 TA40, 2 sub-cashers, steamer PROMETHEUS and G234 were attacked by s-boats between Pola and Triest. There were no one losses, but one enemy s-boats was reported burning, one more possibly sunken. Numerous hits were reported on two additional boats.

Perhaps I will find some more details in the evening - now I have to go sailing! :wink:

BTW, perhaps you want to ask your questions also here:
http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de

Greetings from Austria
Peter K.

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Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:20 am

Hello Peter K.

meeresstile und gluckliche fahrt.

I will try on the site you suggested me, anyway I confide in a fuerther broadside of yours.

Bye :wink:

EC
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Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:28 am

I was unable to register in the marine forum :oops:

EC
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Post by Peter K. » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:49 am

Hello ENRICO!

Probably you don´t pass the security check! You have to type the small and large letters exactly! Please try it again!
I am sure, that there are some guys, who could help you - my original sources according the last war months are too thin ... :?

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Royal Navy coastal forces in the Adriatic

Post by Beershark » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:43 am

Before my father transferred to motor torpedo boats in the "Narrow Seas" campaigns fought in the English Channel and North Sea, he served in (amongst other vessels) Motor Launch 136. I had always thought that M.L.'s were largely confined to protecting the homes base ports and port areas of the Royal Navy, but I have a photo of ML 136 and two others cruising along a shoreline that is bordered by snow capped mountains.
Of course, it could be Scotland but doesn't look like it, and now this thread makes me wonder if M.L.'s ever served in the Adriatic, where, I am sure, parts of the coastline might be bordered with snow capped mountains - is that likely ?.......and might M.L.'s have served in the Adriatic ?
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Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:54 am

Hello Beershark,

Motor Luches served in the Med. (Adriatic too), in the Far East and wherever there was the necessity of a sound boat with sound sailors.

Ther's the bad habit to consider MTBs only forgetting:

a) MTBs did not spent most of their time running like hell and launching torpedoes, but doing heavy patrols without glory, only fatigue.

b) MTBs are generally smaller than ML, MA/SB, SC, R-Boote ect. and less seaworhty then them. The true hard work of coastal forces (today too, even if quite bigger patrol vessels are the rule nowadays) was made by those unglamorous boats, without torpedoes, able to do, at best, 20 knots and always at sea according the universal rule... they were expendable.

My compliments to your father. The 1944-1945 winter was very harsh and some of the highter hills and mountains in Istria and in the Quarnaro were covered by snow.

Greetings

EC
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Post by ptdockyard » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:55 pm

Beershark,
The book " Inshore Heroes" by Granville, Wilfred & Kelly, Robin covers the history of British MLs in all theaters. It is an older book but available at abebooks.com.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDet ... 0%26x%3D53
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ML's in the Adriatic ?

Post by Beershark » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:44 am

Thank you EC and PTdockyard, your responses were both helpful and informative and I shall certainly follow them up. Is it easy to submit/transmit a photograph to this website ? If so, then I shall forward the photo in question.

Cheers,
Beershark

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Post by BaseOpEst » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:22 am

16-17 April 1945 off Trieste three German MFPs and five barges sunk


That may be correct

rgds
I'm looking for anything related to OZAK (photos,maps,docs,etc in original or copies)

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Post by Enrico Cernuschi » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:38 am

May?

The old motto was "To be or not to be".

Bye

EC
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