Does anyone have information about Nov. 7th 1942 - Algiers

[ENIGMACODE]

Hello

I was wondering if anyone had any information regarding a torpedo hit launched against the USS Thomas Stone AP/59 which took part in the invasion of Algiers during 'Operation Torch'

The Stone was a troop transport that was hit aft on it's port side. The ship wasn't sunk, but was dead in the water until it was towed by the Brits into Oran's outer harbor in Algiers.

As my Dad was aboard, and I've done some research into this, there has much controversy which started immediately as to who launched the torpedo. A German U boat? An Italian submarine, or perhaps a JU88 launching it's airborn torpedo?

There has been mention of the Italian submarine 'Antonio Sciesa', and also there has been mention of U Boat 505....as well as a JU88....

I guess no one will ever know for sure?

But I would imagine that if a U Boat made the first hit, and didn't sink the transport the first time, it would be unlikely that the U boat would turn tail, and not complete the job.....

The Italians? That's another matter ......

The JU88?
I guess it's possible the hit could have been off it's mark?

These are all assumptions ....

Any other ideas?
Thanx

[U-404]

I don't remember anthing about JU88 (even the name).

All Italian U-boats I heard of are:
1. UIT-22 (type:Generale Luizzi) - It's missions started in 1938. Was taken by the Germans in 1943. Never sunk any ships. Was sunk by South African aircraft in 1944. All crew (43 men) died.
2. UIT-23 (same type) - Never sunk any ships
3. UIT-24 (type Marcello/Marconi) - never sunk any ships
4. UIT-25 (same type) - never sunk any ships. In 1945 was captured by the Japanese. After war was sunk by Americans.

---------------------------------------------------------

Now U-505 (btw, there's a nice story about it's captain's suicide by Hans Goebler).

It's building started in 12.6.1940. Was a part of 2nd ("Saltzwedel") and 4th ("Ausbildungsflotille") U-bootflotille.
Missions started on 26.8.1941.
Made 12 military missions during which sunk 8 ships.
Surrendered to Americans in 4.6.1944 in western shores of Africa.
One men from crew was registered as "dead" (59 survived).
Commanders:
1. captain 3rd rank Aksel Olaf Lewe (26.8.1941-5.9.1942)
2. captain-leutenant Peter Zschech (6.9.1942-24.10.1943)
3. ober-leutenant Paul Meyer (24.10.1943-7.11.1943)
4. ober-leutenant Harald Lange (8.11.1943-4.6.1944)

-------------------------

That's all of info I've got in my notebooks. Hope I could help:)

[Jan-Hendrik]

The KG 26 was attacking alliied ships in this area with Ju 88 & Ju 188

Jan-Hendrik

[ENIGMACODE]

Hello U-404 & Jan-Hendrik

Thanx for you for your replies .....

The Luftwaffe received the first Ju 88A-0 pre-production planes and Ju 88A-1 production bombers in 1939. The Ju 88A-1 was at the time the best Luftwaffe bomber...

The Ju 88A-4/Torp could carry a pair of 765 kg (1,686 lb) torpedoes

Sooooo it's possible that the strike could have been carried out by a JU88

OR

Could it have been a U boat?

BTW - What is the KG 26

Happy New Year

[Jan-Hendrik]

Kampfgeschwader 26 , the torpedo unit of the Luftwaffe :

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... r/KG26.htm

Jan-Hendrik

[daveh]

In Axis Submarine Successes of WW2 by J Rohwer, the Thomas Stone is noted as having been hit by an airborne torpedo, towed to Algiers and then hulked. (see p.237). The hit was timed at 0537 (GMT) on the 7th by Allied sources.

Harold Thiele in his Luftwaffe Aerial Torpedo Aircraft and Operations in WW2 Appendix 3 p.80, lists the Thomas Stone with a date of 6/7.11.42 and the source of the torpedo as being uncertain. However the main text notes (p.47) that of a force of 20 Ju 88s and 17 He 11s that attempted to attack convoy KMFA.1,of which the Thomas Stone was a part. Only 6 He 111s of 6./KG26 actually reached the convoy. They claimed a hit on a steamer and a large warship.
The timing and position could match the torpedoing of the Thomas Stone.

In his Courage Alone, The Italian Air Force 1940-43, C Dunning notes Allied Shipping Casualties (p.200-202) caused by the Italian Air Force. Neither the Thomas Stone nor any other vessel is listed for the date 7.11.42 or any date close by.

It therefore appears that the Thomas Stone may well have been hit by a torpedo from an He111 of 6./KG26

[ENIGMACODE]

Yes well I guess we can rule out the Italians for scoring the hit.

But I've researched my Dad's notes, and spoke to a Navy Vet aboard the Stone who both said that they were ordered to CEASE fire because they thought that the plane which appeared, may have been a freindly?

It seems there is still some controversy about who scored the hit?

Take a look at this:
http://www.usswashington.com/dl07no42.htm < scroll about 1/2 way down for reference to the Stone
(they're attributing the hit to a JU88)

Thanx again