ships needed for Sealion

German Kriegsmarine 1935-1945.
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Andy H
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Post by Andy H »

And once the Panzers are in, Britain goes down.
Agreed, providing the logistical tail works and the follow up forces arrive.

The British Home Fleet at the start of July 1940 had the following available for home defence:-
3 Battleships
2 Battlecruisers
11 Cruisers
80 Destroyers
plus a further 10 Cruisers and 52 Destroyers were on Convoy duties.

The immeadiate RN response to any German invasion would be by some 5 Cruisers and 42 Destroyers based in Plymouth, Portsmouth and Harwich/Sheerness. Plus the various Patrol craft that numbered in the many hundreds. Germany could sail 8 Destroyers and some SBoots to defend there fleet at sea.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

And so as I patrol in the valley of the shadow of the tricolour I must fear evil, For I am but mortal and mortals can only die
Torquez

Post by Torquez »

And once the Panzers are in, Britain goes down.
How well did the Panzers do in the streets of Stalingrad ?
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Rosselsprung
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Post by Rosselsprung »

That's moronic and you know it. Armored units fare poorly in any urban environment, regardless of nationality. And are you implying that Great Britain is so heavily industrialized the entire landmass is has become a single urban community? It sure wasn't in 1940, nor is it today.
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von_noobie
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Post by von_noobie »

thank you, it was verey possible for the invasion to suceed
Torquez

Post by Torquez »

That's moronic and you know it.
Your statements ? Yes I know.
And are you implying that Great Britain is so heavily industrialized the entire landmass is has become a single urban community?
Neverthless German units would be faced with urban combat.Its unlikely they could made any major gains in Britain with logistical problems they woul encounter.
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Rosselsprung
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Post by Rosselsprung »

Your statements ? Yes I know.
Then prove it. Show me something that was false in my post.
Neverthless German units would be faced with urban combat.Its unlikely they could made any major gains in Britain with logistical problems they woul encounter.
German units faced urban combat everywhere they went! This discussion regarding Sealion is moot because the troops would not have got across the channel without being destroyed. And for your earlier assertion that German units could not take Warsaw, they could take Warsaw, only that the forecast on casualties made them disinclined to simply attack the city until it surrendered. Siege and bombarding the city made more sense militarily and caused far less casualties to the German side. By the way, Warsaw held out for 19 days in September 1939. Stalingrad held out for 6 months, and eventually was re-taken by the Soviets. Leningrad, 3 years. The defenders of Warsaw were undoubtedly brave, but definitely not unique.
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von_noobie
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Post by von_noobie »

once the troops are in britain all is over for the brits, with urban fighting all they have to do is go and surround all the cities that seem to well defended, and it is not like they had a lot of men to defend an entire front line.
Torquez

Post by Torquez »

German units faced urban combat everywhere they went!
Yes for example in Stalingrad or Leningrad :D
German units could not take Warsaw, they could take Warsaw, only that the forecast on casualties made them disinclined to simply attack the city until it surrendered
I am sure...
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Rosselsprung
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Post by Rosselsprung »

You really have a thick skull don't you...

Stalingrad and Leningrad were German defeats in urban areas. But what about Kharkov? They won that one if you don't know. Or Arnhem? They won that one too. Kiev, Odessa, Sevastopol, Novgorod, Rostov, Targal Frumas, do you want me to continue? Urban environments were not the death knell of German units as you see it.

If you want to see how urban combat can affect even the best forces in a negative way if they are attacking see the Battle of Hue City in Vietnam. The Marines had quite a tough time there.
Torquez

Post by Torquez »

The Marines had quite a tough time there.
Yes but let us not compare the combat experts like the Marines with Nazi fanatics.
Or Arnhem? They won that one too. Kiev, Odessa, Sevastopol, Novgorod, Rostov, Targal Frumas, do you want me to continue
In cases of SU they fought an unprepared army that almost collapsed.Arnhem was illprepared and didn't receive needed support.
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Rosselsprung
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Post by Rosselsprung »

Yes but let us not compare the combat experts like the Marines with Nazi fanatics.
Whether they were Nazi fanatics or not, they were just as much "combat experts" as US Marines. They were soldiers, and some of them were among the best in the world.
In cases of SU they fought an unprepared army that almost collapsed
False. The first 6 weeks of Barbarossa were against an unprepared army, but in the fall of 1941, the Red Army was able to mobilize a huge number of troops. And some of the examples I mentioned were from 1943 and 1944.
Arnhem was illprepared and didn't receive needed support.
There were supply drops to the 1st AB Div. in Arnhem, they just ended up in German hands. And ill prepared? There was a full strength, elite British Airborn Division facing 2 SS Panzer Division each at quarter strength whoose only advantage was the Panzers they had.

Obviously you subscribe to the Holywood version of WW2, with inept Nazis all with Schmeissers and Swastika armbands bumbling about Europe unable to harm a single GI.
Torquez

Post by Torquez »

They were soldiers, and some of them were among the best in the world.
Nazi Army took part in so many atrocities I don't think they can be described as "best soldiers".
Anyway this section is for Kriegsmarine so lets just leave it.
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Rosselsprung
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Post by Rosselsprung »

Nazi Army took part in so many atrocities I don't think they can be described as "best soldiers".
Anyway this section is for Kriegsmarine so lets just leave it.
The Roman Legions exterminated dozens upon dozens of barbarian tribes yet they are still regarded as the best in the ancient world. Ghengis Khan's mongolian horde destroyed several civilizations yet their military prowess is undoubted. War crimes do not have any effect on the quality of troops in the field.

And also, how very typical of you to ignore the rest of my post completely. I suppose when confronted with the truth and evidence contrary to your beliefs you run like a scared child.
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M.H.
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Post by M.H. »

You know Torqi, downplaying the achievements of the German soldiers isn't a clever thing to do since it makes the polish soldier looking even worse... :wink:
Torquez

Post by Torquez »

I suppose when confronted with the truth and evidence contrary to your beliefs you run like a scared child.
Posting to yourself again ?
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