Did any Axis allies submit aircraft to Germany to be evaluated and if so who where they and what did they send?
cheers and thanks
Axis aircraft evaluated by Germany
Axis aircraft evaluated by Germany
"When you dance with death, you wait until the song ends."
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sid guttridge
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Hi Tony,
The Romanians did not "send" their own designs for evaluation by the Germans, but German pilots did evaluate Romanian designs in Romania from early 1941. This was because the IAR80 and JRS79B medium bomber needed German-supplied components and materials and the Germans wanted to be sure that these types were worth the diversion of radios, engines etc. from their own overstretched factories.
Cheers,
Sid.
The Romanians did not "send" their own designs for evaluation by the Germans, but German pilots did evaluate Romanian designs in Romania from early 1941. This was because the IAR80 and JRS79B medium bomber needed German-supplied components and materials and the Germans wanted to be sure that these types were worth the diversion of radios, engines etc. from their own overstretched factories.
Cheers,
Sid.
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sid guttridge
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Hi Max,
Romania had limited industrial capacity and before the war had contracted aircraft components and materials from all over Europe, particularly France, to make up for its own manufacturing limitations. When Germany over ran almost all of Romania's suppliers it was forced to deal through the Germans.
Compatibility and superior performance made the use of German radios and engines advisable so the basic IAR80 and JRS79 designs were adapted to take such German-supplied items.
Had Romania been given licences for such items then it would have taken longer to get them into service because Romania lacked the technological base to manufacture everything required. Romania would also have been competing with Germany for machine tools and strategic materials that Germany preferred to keep a monopoly of in resource starved "Fortress Europe".
Cheers,
Sid.
Romania had limited industrial capacity and before the war had contracted aircraft components and materials from all over Europe, particularly France, to make up for its own manufacturing limitations. When Germany over ran almost all of Romania's suppliers it was forced to deal through the Germans.
Compatibility and superior performance made the use of German radios and engines advisable so the basic IAR80 and JRS79 designs were adapted to take such German-supplied items.
Had Romania been given licences for such items then it would have taken longer to get them into service because Romania lacked the technological base to manufacture everything required. Romania would also have been competing with Germany for machine tools and strategic materials that Germany preferred to keep a monopoly of in resource starved "Fortress Europe".
Cheers,
Sid.
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Robert Hurst
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Hi Tony
During 1943, both German and Italian pilots flight tested the sole prototype of the Fiat G.56 single-seat fighter.
In comparison tests against a standard Bf.109G, the Fiat G.56 was found to be superior in all aspects.
The Germans also tested prototypes of the following twin-engined Italian aircraft; the Caproni Ca 331b night fighter, and the Savoia-Marchetti SM 91 and 92 long-range escort fighter and bomber destroyer.
Regard
Bob
During 1943, both German and Italian pilots flight tested the sole prototype of the Fiat G.56 single-seat fighter.
In comparison tests against a standard Bf.109G, the Fiat G.56 was found to be superior in all aspects.
The Germans also tested prototypes of the following twin-engined Italian aircraft; the Caproni Ca 331b night fighter, and the Savoia-Marchetti SM 91 and 92 long-range escort fighter and bomber destroyer.
Regard
Bob
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sid guttridge
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Hi Bob,
Were these tests conducted before or after Italy's Armistice with the Allies in September 1943?
If after, I would suspect that they were related to the question of whether it was worthwhile for the Germans to continue to supply the Italian aircraft industry in Northern Italy, which was still behind German lines, with scarce strategic materials.
Another general question:
Did the Germans ever adopt novel design features from allied aircraft industries as a result of these tests?
Cheers,
Sid
Were these tests conducted before or after Italy's Armistice with the Allies in September 1943?
If after, I would suspect that they were related to the question of whether it was worthwhile for the Germans to continue to supply the Italian aircraft industry in Northern Italy, which was still behind German lines, with scarce strategic materials.
Another general question:
Did the Germans ever adopt novel design features from allied aircraft industries as a result of these tests?
Cheers,
Sid
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Robert Hurst
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Hi Sid
With regard to the first part of your reply the aircraft that I mentioned were tested at the following times.
Caproni Ca 331B Raffica.
This twin-engined night fighter was first tested by the Italians in August 1943. By 8 September, 1943, when Italy capitulated, preparations for quantity production had reached an advanced stage. With the Armistice, the two prototypes were seized by the Germans, and after some desultry testing, eventually dismantled and scrapped.
Fiat G.56
This single-engined fighter was first flown on 28, March, 1944. The single prototype was tested by both Italian and German pilots, and in mock dog-fights with the Messerschmitt Bf 109G and the Focke-wulf Fw 190A, it proved itself superior on every count, although manoeuvrability was slightly inferior to that of the G.55.
The reason why the G.56 was never put into production was because the Germans were unable to guarantee delivery of sufficient DB 603 engines to Italy. In consequence no preparations for quantity production of the G.56 was initiated.
Savoia-Marchetti SM 91
This aircraft was flown for the first time on 10, March, 1943. Only one prototype was completed, and only limited flight testing under German auspices was undertaken.
Savoia-Marchetti SM 92.
This aircraft was flown for the first time on 12, November, 1943. Only one prototype was competed, and only limited flight testing under German auspices was undertaken.
With regard to your other question, I don't have any real information to hand.
Regards
Bob
With regard to the first part of your reply the aircraft that I mentioned were tested at the following times.
Caproni Ca 331B Raffica.
This twin-engined night fighter was first tested by the Italians in August 1943. By 8 September, 1943, when Italy capitulated, preparations for quantity production had reached an advanced stage. With the Armistice, the two prototypes were seized by the Germans, and after some desultry testing, eventually dismantled and scrapped.
Fiat G.56
This single-engined fighter was first flown on 28, March, 1944. The single prototype was tested by both Italian and German pilots, and in mock dog-fights with the Messerschmitt Bf 109G and the Focke-wulf Fw 190A, it proved itself superior on every count, although manoeuvrability was slightly inferior to that of the G.55.
The reason why the G.56 was never put into production was because the Germans were unable to guarantee delivery of sufficient DB 603 engines to Italy. In consequence no preparations for quantity production of the G.56 was initiated.
Savoia-Marchetti SM 91
This aircraft was flown for the first time on 10, March, 1943. Only one prototype was completed, and only limited flight testing under German auspices was undertaken.
Savoia-Marchetti SM 92.
This aircraft was flown for the first time on 12, November, 1943. Only one prototype was competed, and only limited flight testing under German auspices was undertaken.
With regard to your other question, I don't have any real information to hand.
Regards
Bob
Re:
The following is the report of the Luftwaffe major that tested IAR-80 in March 1941:sid guttridge wrote:Hi Tony,
The Romanians did not "send" their own designs for evaluation by the Germans, but German pilots did evaluate Romanian designs in Romania from early 1941. This was because the IAR80 and JRS79B medium bomber needed German-supplied components and materials and the Germans wanted to be sure that these types were worth the diversion of radios, engines etc. from their own overstretched factories.
Cheers,
Sid.
"Take off and landing are very good. It's 20-30 km/h slower than the Bf-109E. The climb to 5,000 meters is equivalent. In a dogfight, the turns are also equivalent, although the long nose reduces the visibility. In a dive it's outclassed by the Bf-109E, because it lacks an automated propeller pitch regulator. It's a fighter adequate to modern needs."
Source:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/?article=749