What was the best Piston Engined Aircraft of the War?

[Sam H.]

My vote would go to the Luftwaffe TA-152. Though the Mustang would get honorable mention.

[Erich]

Ah do you only mean German a/c since this is a forum dealing with German arms and men ?

Yes the Tank 152 is on top of my list although the Fw 190A-8 and A-9 are up there too. Bf 109G-10 the fastest of the 109 variants.

US a/c the P-51 D and the P-47 "bubble top"

~E

[Mike H]

Don't forget the forerunner to the Ta 152 the Fw 190 D9 and the often overlooked British Hawker Tempest which was credited with at least 20 Me 262 kills.

[Erich]

Fw 190D was just the stop gap for the Tank. Everyone kept waiting for the high altitude wonder and the only unit that received it was III. gruppe and Stab./JG 301. I guess the best is in the eye of the beholder and that being the pilot that flew the a/c......

I wonder are we counting twin engine in this thread ?

~E

[Gizmo]

And what about p-51H ?
Wonderful aircraft, but never delivered to units in ETO or PTO.
P-51H performances was better than Ta-152.

[jerijerod]

For Pure versitillity (excuse my spellings) it has to be the Ju 88, she served pretty much every niche the Luftwaffe wanted for a twin engined plane. Zerstorer, schnellbomber, nightfighter, torpedo bomber, medium bomber, reconnaisance and Stuka.
For the Allies I would have to go with the Mosquito mainly for the reasons stated for the Junker and because she was made purely of wood and was thus economical and they were built in my home town.
Chris

[Sam H.]

Ah do you only mean German a/c since this is a forum dealing with German arms and men ?"

~E

Open question concerning Allied and Axis aircraft alike.

[Erich]

ok, yes the Ju 88G-6 night fighter the best in the German night fighter arsenal except for the Me 262A-1a moskito-jäger.......oops that's a jet. forget the Ta 154 whcih never flew in combat and the He 219 Uhu which was a mistake from the beginning.......unreliable

For the RAF, yes the Mossie with the nf version XXX being outstanding

~E

[Sebastian Pye]

hawker tempest and ta-152, I believe the tank was a lot better at higher altitudes and the tempest was better at lower.

[Erich]

Actually Sebastian the Ta 152 with JG 301 never flew at it's proposed high altitude of 35,000 feet upwards. Only in test trials before it became combat operative. All combat engagements against Soviet fighters, P-47's and Tempests were at medium altitude so the "hot rod" was never able to prove itself except for one case when Kurt Tank himself took a C variant up and got bounced by P-51D's. Kurt hit the MW 50 and "walked away" from the Mustangs......

~E

[Sam H.]

Imagine what that aircraft could have done if it had come on line a year earlier? Probaly not enough to change the allied bombing campaign dramaticly, but it certainly would have made its presence felt.

[Erich]

In the summer/fall of 1945 all Fw 190 A fighter units were supposed to exchange their a/c for the Fw 190D and then Ta 152 later. An exception to this rule was JG 300 where II.Sturm gruppe was to have the D-9 and III. and IV./JG 300 to have it's Bf 109G's and then K's / all three gruppen would then have their a/c replaced by the Me 262A-1a

~E

[jerijerod]

Hi
Sorry just to back track a little. I heard the He 219 UHU was one of the best nightfighters of the war.
Chris

[/quote]

[Erich]

Do I dare answer this.... ? Ok I'll probably get raked over the coals on this one. I started studying the He 219 for a book I was putting together back in 1967 on the GErman night fighter units and their a/c, but a couple of German authors beat me to the punch with their easy access to NJG 1 records, vets and PRO in the UK and BA/MA at Freiburg. The Night fighter force first wanted a fast, hard-hitting, streamlined night fighter other than using existing variants of the Bf 110G and Ju 88 C that were easily on hand. Wha-la the He 219 was born and besides chasing the "heavies" RAF's sleek Halifax and Lancaster bombers, the German powers to be wanted also a swift a/c to chase down the dreaded Mosquito bombers that were making nuisance raids on the Reich's capital Berlin.
NJG 1 was elected to be the NF unit to test the big twin engine a/c. Several prototypes were also in the hand with units NJG 5 and test unit 3./NJGr 10 and finally one in nachtjadstaffel Norwegen. The units besides NJg 1 were un-impressed. I./NJG 1 gave up their trusty Bf 110G-4 and fully re-equipped with the Uhu. some test were also done with crews of III./NJG 1 but the crewman still preferred the Bf 110G-4 over the He 219.
At first I./NJG 1 did quite well with the new fast machine, but still had many problems on working out the best technique to bring down the Mossie. Diving down and then up behind seemed to be the best tactic but the elemnt of surprise had to be with the German crew. I./NJG 1 in all it's lifetime were only able to bring down a total of 12 Mosquito's with the UHU.
The Heinkel had problem's with underpowered engines, weak landing gear as it was a front tricycle undercarriage, and no rearward armament to ward off attacking Mosquito intruders. The first run-off of the A-2 variant didn't een have rear warning radar so the I./NJG 1 crews suffered.
The big craft on the other hand had a tremendous armament whcih included up to 6 forward firing 2cm weapons and sometimes supplemented with 3cm in the lower tray instead of all 6 20mm's. I./NJG 1 crews found the armament to much and they left the wing mounted 20mm's in and had the maintenace crews remove two of the lower 20mm's out of the belly tray. Experiments were made also during the time of Mossie chasing to lighten the load and that was to remove all armor from the bird and put in a better high altitude engine. The variant the A-6 was to be the craft chosen but it never materialized. I./NJg 1 continued operating the bird with more sophisticated FuG 220D radar and with the rear warning attachment to warn the crew of incoming intruders. The A-5 and lastly the somewhat more dependable A-7 variant was flown but still no rearward armament, although a three man crew was invisioned to be placed with the sole purpose of having a rear gunner armed with a single .50 cal/13mm MG 131 mg.
One of the highlights and maybe the only one in my eyes is the first real installation of a two seat system ejection seat. Experiments were found to be good but in combat operations several I./NJG 1 crews fell prey to malfunctioning canopy's and were blown sky high through the canopy roofs with the end result.......
During 1944-45 it was found that III. and IV./NJG 1 were still racking up higher scores with their Bf 110G's than poor I./NJG 1 with the He 219.
End result for a true Mossie hunter the Ta 154 was built from wood but that is another sad story as the a/c was bottom heavy and had a very weak wing spar construction along with the un-bonding of the glue/resin all along the fuselage.

~E now ready for some heavy hitters......

[Mitch Williamson]

Well Erich, I'm certainly no heavy hitter...but have an open mind concerning the 'Legend' surrounding this aircraft.

He 219 Operational Assessment

So, how does one assess this controversial aircraft? There is no doubt it was a 1940 design of exceptional merit which could in a more ordered society have been developed for many roles with telling effect, as it was the UK’s Mosquito. The mass of sub-types merely diluted from the main production effort, and the consistent failure of Daimler-Benz and Junkers to deliver the hoped-for engines killed the advanced versions that would have kept the He 219 in front. As for the aircraft itself, opinions are divided.

According to Gebhard Aders (author of Geschichte der deutschen Nachtjagd) the He 219 “never achieved the values given in its manual. With almost full tanks and armament the He 219 could not get above 8000m (26,247 ft) …With Lichtenstein and flame dampers the maximum fell to about 500 km/h (311 mph) at this height…”

On the other hand he states “The 219 was the only German night-fighter that could still climb on one engine, and even go around for another landing attempt” , a brief echoed by many Uhu pilots. Yet the greatest of test pilots, Captain (FAA) E. M. ‘Winkle’ Brown, who flew several captured He 219s, wrote in Air International that the type was ‘somewhat overrated…It suffered from what is perhaps the nastiest characteristic that a twin-engined aircraft can have: it was underpowered. This defect makes take-off a critical maneuver in the event of an engine failing, and a landing with one engine out can be equally critical. There certainly could be no overshooting with the He 219 in that condition.”

This marginal performance is the more remarkable when it is remembered that the DB 603 was the largest of the inverted V-12 engines used by the Luftwaffe, with cubic capacity 65 per cent greater than that of the Merlin. The problem lay squarely in the growth of systems and equipment with which the Uhu was packed, so that a typical He 219A-7 version weighted more empty than any Ju 88 night-fighter, and more than a Mosquito fully loaded!

Bill Gunston in Heinkel He 219 Uhu, Airplane No. 182 pages 5088-5094

Gehard Aders “History of the German Night Fighter Force 1917–1945” (Jane’s, London, 1979)

In June [1944] a few He 219 As were also flown operationally by II./NJG 1, but the pilots — all old Bf 110 hands — were not at ease with the Uhu. They found that its performance was not significantly better than that of their usual mounts, felt most uncomfortable sitting ahead of the engines, and most of all bemoaned the fact that the He 219 had only a two-man crew. At their request the front-line workshops replaced the rear entry hatch (intended for access to the oblique guns) with a Plexiglass panel through which a third crew member could observe the airspace beneath the fighter. Some pilots are even supposed to have had a machine gun on a simple lens-type mount fitted in this position for defence against Mosquito attacks. The request for a three-man crew was met by Heinkel with Rüstsatz 4 applicable to the He 219 A-5. This consisted of an additional cockpit with a defensive weapon, fitted on top of the main cabin. The pattern aircraft, He 219V30, was also test-flown by NJGr. 10 and criticised because of a 25 km/h (15.5 mph) loss in speed. The 150 hp of extra power available on the He 219 A-5 series cancelled this out, but that was all.

Potentially, with correct weights and best engines...it was a winner...but it seems it just did not make it in practise.

Regards
Mitch