Freikorps Moelders 1919-1920

Opa · Post by **Opa** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:39 pm

After being discharged from the Heer in Spring 1919, my Opa was in an outfit called the Freikorps Moelders that fought in Bavaria (Wuerzburg area?) and perhaps Berlin. Any information about that Freikorps would be appreciated.

Jason Pipes · Post by **Jason Pipes** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:25 pm

I searched all my available resources regarding Freikorp units and was not able to find a unit named as such. Where did you find your reference to it in the first place? An offical document? A letter? A book?

Opa · Post by **Opa** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:35 pm

Sorry, it was a typo--I did not have the cv of my Opa in front of me. After his release from the Bayrisches Ersatz Battalion 5 (before he was 3 years in the 9th Bay. Infanterie Regiment, mainly around Senones in the Vogesen, but with a brief participation in the battle of Verdun), he was in the Freikorps MOEHL (Mohl, with Umlaut over the o), Marschgruppe Wuerzburg, from May to September 1919.

Jason Pipes · Post by **Jason Pipes** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:01 pm

The closest Freikorps unit that I can find reference to is Freikorps Mowe, with an Umlaut over the o. Do you feel this is possibly the same unit?

Opa · Post by **Opa** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 7:47 am

On his CV (from 1955, when he tried join the Bundeswehr), my grandfather clearly typed Moehl (with Umlaut). I don't know anything about the outfit, perhaps a minor local one from around Wuerzburg.

Thomas

Rohrbach · Post by **Rohrbach** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 8:59 am

Hi Opa and Jason,

As with Jason, I haven't found anything on FK Möhl or Marschgruppe Würzburg. Although frustrating, it isn't all that surprising. Many of the FK formations were small, short-lived groups that formed in response to a specific, often local, crisis. As far as I know, there is no comprehensive list of units. It also doesn't help that most of the German government records pertaining to FK units were destroyed during the Second World War.

Piecing together the information provided by Opa with the events of the time, I think I might have come up with something that will hopefully help Opa in his search. As you probably already know, many FK units named themselves for their leader or for an authority figure with whom the men identified. There was a General Arnold Ritter von Möhl who was a Reichswehr General involved in the defeat of the Munich Soviet Republic. He was aligned with the extreme right and a Bavarian nationalist. The government force sent to Bavaria to crush the Soviet consisted of FK units and regular troops. It was under the command of General von Oven. Von Oven's orders reflected the capture of Munich as his primary objective. Once taken, von Möhl was to become the military commander of the city.

Von Möhl took charge of Munich at some point between May 2 and May 6, 1919 (and later became C-in-C of the Bavarian Military District of the Reichswehr) . While the Soviet Republic was crushed, the threat of a Bolshevik uprising continued in it's wake. Gun battles and arrests of Bolsheviks were fairly common throughout the following year. Given the name of the unit, your Grandfather's time in service with it, and the connection with Bavaria, I think it is possible that FK Möhl was a short-lived unit that was raised to counter the Bolshevik threat in Bavaria.

I can't be certain, Opa, but you may have uncovered a forgotten or "lost" unit. If you are really interested in discovering more information on your Grandfather's unit, you might want to try contacting Robert Thoms or Stefan Pochanke. They are two German researchers who specialize in the Freikorps subject area. You might be able to reach them through MTM Verlag or find other contact information on-line. Good luck to you and, if you find more information on FK Möhl, please post it here.

Rohrbach

Jason Pipes · Post by **Jason Pipes** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 7:34 pm

Excellent posting Rohrbach, and excellent detective work! I would concur with your findings as well. I will continue to poke around and see what else I can come up with on this unit and General Arnold Ritter von Möhl.

Opa · Post by **Opa** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 9:38 am

Thanks, too. I'm going to pursue this angle.

Rohrbach · Post by **Rohrbach** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 1:19 pm

Hi Opa,

Have you found out any more info about your grandfather's time in the FK?

Rohrbach

George Lepre · Post by **George Lepre** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:23 am

Hi guys -

As far as places to find information, here are some suggestions:

Munich Stadtarchiv
Institut fuer Zeitgeschichte
(There must be some sort of Bayern Staat-Archiv)

There is an excellent English-language book on the Munich "Soviet" Republic, Red Rising in Bavaria. It is long out of print but is scholarly and useful.

Lastly, the German Left never tires of writing about themselves. I am sure that they have published many books and articles and written countless theses and dissertations on this subject. The Red Risings of 1918-1924 were really en vogue to academics in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

Best regards,

George Lepre

Rohrbach · Post by **Rohrbach** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 7:50 am

Hi,

Richard Grunberger's Red Rising in Bavaria does provide alot of great information on the Munich Soviet and is definitely worth reading.

Two others covering the same topic are Allan Mitchell's Revolution in Bavaria, 1918-1919 and David Clay Large's Where Ghosts Walked. Large's book takes a longer look at Munich and Bavaria from about the 1890s to the Nazi period, including the time of the Munich Soviet.

They all have some references to von Möhl but nothing about a FK unit with that name.

Rohrbach

kanzel · Post by **kanzel** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:09 pm

A book was published in English on the FK.

Vanguard of Nazism, The Free Corps Movement
in Postwar Germany 1918-1923. By Robert G. L Waite,
344 pages, Harvard University Press, 1952, reissued 1970.

Library of Congress Catalog Card No. 52-5045
SBN 674-93142-4

A very complicated subject which is discussed in great
detail in the book. My Father served in Baltischer National Ausschuss
in Flieger Abteilung Fl. Abt. 424 in the Mitau, Latvia area in 1919
and early 1920. This unit refused the order to return home and
command of it was transferred to Prince Awaloff-Bermondt,
a White Russian. The Baltischer National Ausschuss was then
re named the "Russian Army of the West". At it's height it
had 55,000 troops, 40,000 of which were German Volunteers.
Thought I purchased the book twenty years ago today was the
first day I opened it!

Silverfang · Post by **Silverfang** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:03 am

Following up on the excellent lead from Rohrbach , here is an extract from the post by tyskaorden on the Axis History forum at;
http://www.forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=26283

In the Area (Niederfranken & Pfalz) of the II Bavarian Army Corps (HQ Würzburg):

Detachment Probstmeyer ,raised in Mellrichstadt and Würzburg.
I Vol.Bn., raised by Bav.4th Inf.Regt. Metz demob. Würzburg
II Vol.Bn., raised by Bav.8th Inf.Regt. 8 Metz, demob. Bad Kissingen
III Vol.Bn., raised by Bav. 23rd Inf.Regt. Landau, demob. Würzburg
1s t& 2nd Vol.Btys. Bav. 11th Field Art.Regt. Würzburg
Freikorps Würzburg (Bn. Scheuring), raised by Bav. 9th Inf.Regt. Würzburg
Freikorps Bamberg (Schtz.Regt. Leupold), raised by Bav.5th Inf.Regt.
Bamberg
Freikorps Aschaffenburg, raised by Bav. 2nd Jäger Bn. Aschaffenburg

Eiserne Schar Berthold also Franconian Farmer Detachment, raised in Hammelburg. In June 1919 IV Bn. Bav. Rifle Regt. No 1. To Courland on 9 September where it became III Bn. 2nd Courland Inf.Regt.

Vol.Sqn. Schätzler, raised by Bav. 1st Uhlan Regt. Bamberg

Vol.Sqn. Leoprechting, raised by Bav. 2nd Uhlan Regt. Ansbach

The main part of the troops fromed Reichswehr Bde. 23 in Würzburg on 1 June 1919

Silverfang · Post by **Silverfang** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:43 am

I apologise for the length of this post , but it at least ends with a possiblely useful hypothesis.

In addition to my last post I also found some interesting stuff on the Bavarian Republic Topic of the Axis History Forum.

I quote the following extracts from the post by Mikael on that topic; at,

http://www. forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=30503

"I have tried to translate the text on:

http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zwirlein/page3.5.htm

But my german is not perfect So i wonder if someoen can read through my text if it is not of to much of a trouble. And report any errors or corrections. "

(TEXT OMITTED)

"At first several other Bavarian cities supported and joined the soviet republic, but eventually Münich remained nearly isolated. The government of Hoffman withdrew to Bamberg, and the members of the USPD seperated from it. On the 13th of April republican soldiers with the approval of the Bamberg government in Münich moved against the soviet republic and arrested 13 members of the Central Committee. The movement failed and crushed and the communist informed the workers and soldiers that the Central Committee had transfered the government to the communist dominated executive councill with Max von Levien and Eugen Levine as leader. The new soviet government immiedetly proclaimed a general strike. Landauer, was still teh people representative for the public enlightment, recognized the new situation on an public statement and explained themselves ready for cooperation.

On the following day the government of Hoffman announced that the use of Freikorps against the soviet republic had been summoned, and on the 15th of april Loyalist troops surrounded Münich, and the revolutionary red army now was completely surrounded and now had to defend themselves. On the 17th of April the Minister of the Defence Gustav Noske decided to proceed against the soviet government harshly and send in Governmental forces into Münich.

On the 22 of April the general strike combined with a mass demonstration went to an end. And shortly after the controversy between the Communist about Levine and the revolutionaries anger over the actions of the government and the high command of the bavarian republics army removed Leviné from his power and selected a new provisional government under Toller. Toller immiedelty took up negotiations with the Bamberger government, where again lead to no results and where called of. On the 28 of april a new committee was selected, to who neither communists or Toller belonged. In the consequence the fight against the government forces of Gustav Noske that already was struggling in the suburbs of Münich was intensified again, starting from the 30th of April it came to violent fights into and for Münich and to massacres of red army soldiers and the local population, and on the 2 of may the city was occupied by the Weimar troops and the freikorps. About 1000 men where killed in battle and about 5000 where brought to justice and brought to death in consequence of their participation in the soviet republic. Landauer was arrested on the 1 of may and mrudered on the following day; Levine was condemmed on the 3 of june to death and two days later was shot; Toller for five and Mühsam for 15 years detention. First the death penalty imposed against Count Arco-Valley (The man that killed Kurt Eisner) was converted into a lifelong imprisonment;but in 1924 he was released."

(Rest of text Omitted.)

Several questions arise:
1) From Opa's previous postings it appears that his OPA served with 9.Bay.Inf.regt. tween c1915-c1919. He then served with Bayrisches Ersatz Battalion 5 , he was in the Freikorps MOEHL (Mohl, with Umlaut over the o), and Marschgruppe Wuerzburg, from May to September 1919.

What was Bay.Erz.5.Btn? , F.k von Moehl?, Marschgruppe Wurzberg?

2) Is Bay.Erz.5.Btn actually a jumbled recallection of a sub-unit or even the full unit, FreiKorps Bamberg (see my previous post)? and/or some sort of temporary Übergangsheer unit?

3) Marchsgruppe Wurzberg. The name would imply a temporary collum , or perhaps a Kampfgruppen? Is this the name of a short lived field force?, or perhaps the name Reichswehr Brigade 23 operated under before it was officially formed on 1/6/19?

4) Reichswher Brigade 22 in Munich. It is clear that the Bavarian Government had to flee Munich, which seems to imply that neither the police , nor the Übergangsheer, could guarrantee thier saftey. Was the soon to be officially formed Reichswher Brigade 22 unable to respond to the emergencey, and this is why it was not retained when the Reichswher was formed? Or was the Brigade not intended to be formed as part of the Übergangsheer, and its subsequent formation was a short term measure deemed necessary to keep Munich under control? In which case did the attempted Socialist Revolution and the latter Beer Hall Putsch's occur because it was perceived that there was no effective Weimar/Heer garrison to oppose them?

5) Was F.K von Moehl actually Watch Kompanie Von Moehl?

Hypothesis:

The Übergangsheer and the Polezei, were unable to guarrantee Hoffman's security in Munich.

He then fled to Bamberg but imediately contacted Übergangsheer Leaders in Wurzberg,were the Bay.IIArmee Korps had been Headquartered, and requested thier assistance . Consultantions then occured, (or orders had already been recieved/anticipated), with Berlin and what would become the local Reichswehrgruppenkommand. Then and there ,either a relief collum was thrown togeather out of F.K's Vol's and Übergangsheer, or what would become Reichswehr Brigade 23 was activated .

Opa's Opa was part of this force, may be in the security company detailed to protect Gen. von Moehl.

This Marschgruppe was then part of the force that invested Munich . The arrest attempt having failed ,(13/4/19) they suppressed the Soviet once the Weimar Government gave the okay (17/4/19).

After the revolt was put down. The core of the Marshgruppe became Reichswher Brigade 23, as it contained loyal and reliable troops.The Temporary name Marschgruppe Wurzberg then dissapeered , <perhaps because the unit had always really been R.W.Bde 23?>

Opa's Opa was not one of the men detailed for this purpose .

It was also essential to form Reichswehr Brigade 22 to secure Munich. Therefore various loyal troops were used to cobble togeather this Brigade by converting F.K's who suppressed the Soviet . Converting Groups of F.K's into R.W Bde's seems to be the way the Übergangsheer formed the Reichswehr Brigades.

Opa's Opa may have been one of the men used to form R.W.Bde 22.Particularly if he was part of the security company mentioned above, this would be logical.

In which case it makes sense why his record as reported doesn't seem to include Reichswher service. As R.W.Bde 22 was not retained when the Reichswher was formed in 1921. He either was officially mustered out then or had already left service before that date.

What do People think?

Silverfang

Silverfang · Post by **Silverfang** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:47 am

I apologise for the length of this post , but it at least ends with a possiblely useful hypothesis.

In addition to my last post I also found some interesting stuff on the Bavarian Republic Topic of the Axis History Forum.

I quote the following extracts from the post by Mikael on that topic; at,

http://www. forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=30503

"I have tried to translate the text on:

http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zwirlein/page3.5.htm

But my german is not perfect So i wonder if someoen can read through my text if it is not of to much of a trouble. And report any errors or corrections. "

(TEXT OMITTED)

"At first several other Bavarian cities supported and joined the soviet republic, but eventually Münich remained nearly isolated. The government of Hoffman withdrew to Bamberg, and the members of the USPD seperated from it. On the 13th of April republican soldiers with the approval of the Bamberg government in Münich moved against the soviet republic and arrested 13 members of the Central Committee. The movement failed and crushed and the communist informed the workers and soldiers that the Central Committee had transfered the government to the communist dominated executive councill with Max von Levien and Eugen Levine as leader. The new soviet government immiedetly proclaimed a general strike. Landauer, was still teh people representative for the public enlightment, recognized the new situation on an public statement and explained themselves ready for cooperation.

On the following day the government of Hoffman announced that the use of Freikorps against the soviet republic had been summoned, and on the 15th of april Loyalist troops surrounded Münich, and the revolutionary red army now was completely surrounded and now had to defend themselves. On the 17th of April the Minister of the Defence Gustav Noske decided to proceed against the soviet government harshly and send in Governmental forces into Münich.

On the 22 of April the general strike combined with a mass demonstration went to an end. And shortly after the controversy between the Communist about Levine and the revolutionaries anger over the actions of the government and the high command of the bavarian republics army removed Leviné from his power and selected a new provisional government under Toller. Toller immiedelty took up negotiations with the Bamberger government, where again lead to no results and where called of. On the 28 of april a new committee was selected, to who neither communists or Toller belonged. In the consequence the fight against the government forces of Gustav Noske that already was struggling in the suburbs of Münich was intensified again, starting from the 30th of April it came to violent fights into and for Münich and to massacres of red army soldiers and the local population, and on the 2 of may the city was occupied by the Weimar troops and the freikorps. About 1000 men where killed in battle and about 5000 where brought to justice and brought to death in consequence of their participation in the soviet republic. Landauer was arrested on the 1 of may and mrudered on the following day; Levine was condemmed on the 3 of june to death and two days later was shot; Toller for five and Mühsam for 15 years detention. First the death penalty imposed against Count Arco-Valley (The man that killed Kurt Eisner) was converted into a lifelong imprisonment;but in 1924 he was released."

(Rest of text Omitted.)

Several questions arise:
1) From Opa's previous postings it appears that his OPA served with 9.Bay.Inf.regt. tween c1915-c1919. He then served with Bayrisches Ersatz Battalion 5 , he was in the Freikorps MOEHL (Mohl, with Umlaut over the o), and Marschgruppe Wuerzburg, from May to September 1919.

What was Bay.Erz.5.Btn? , F.k von Moehl?, Marschgruppe Wurzberg?

2) Is Bay.Erz.5.Btn actually a jumbled recallection of a sub-unit or even the full unit, FreiKorps Bamberg (see my previous post)? and/or some sort of temporary Übergangsheer unit?

3) Marchsgruppe Wurzberg. The name would imply a temporary collum , or perhaps a Kampfgruppen? Is this the name of a short lived field force?, or perhaps the name Reichswehr Brigade 23 operated under before it was officially formed on 1/6/19?

4) Reichswher Brigade 22 in Munich. It is clear that the Bavarian Government had to flee Munich, which seems to imply that neither the police , nor the Übergangsheer, could guarrantee thier saftey. Was the soon to be officially formed Reichswher Brigade 22 unable to respond to the emergencey, and this is why it was not retained when the Reichswher was formed? Or was the Brigade not intended to be formed as part of the Übergangsheer, and its subsequent formation was a short term measure deemed necessary to keep Munich under control? In which case did the attempted Socialist Revolution and the latter Beer Hall Putsch's occur because it was perceived that there was no effective Weimar/Heer garrison to oppose them?

5) Was F.K von Moehl actually Watch Kompanie Von Moehl?

Hypothesis:

The Übergangsheer and the Polezei, were unable to guarrantee Hoffman's security in Munich.

He then fled to Bamberg but imediately contacted Übergangsheer Leaders in Wurzberg,were the Bay.IIArmee Korps had been Headquartered, and requested thier assistance . Consultantions then occured, (or orders had already been recieved/anticipated), with Berlin and what would become the local Reichswehrgruppenkommand. Then and there ,either a relief collum was thrown togeather out of F.K's Vol's and Übergangsheer, or what would become Reichswehr Brigade 23 was activated .

Opa's Opa was part of this force, may be in the security company detailed to protect Gen. von Moehl.

This Marschgruppe was then part of the force that invested Munich . The arrest attempt having failed ,(13/4/19) they suppressed the Soviet once the Weimar Government gave the okay (17/4/19).

After the revolt was put down. The core of the Marshgruppe became Reichswher Brigade 23, as it contained loyal and reliable troops.The Temporary name Marschgruppe Wurzberg then dissapeered , <perhaps because the unit had always really been R.W.Bde 23?>

Opa's Opa was not one of the men detailed for this purpose .

It was also essential to form Reichswehr Brigade 22 to secure Munich. Therefore various loyal troops were used to cobble togeather this Brigade by converting F.K's who suppressed the Soviet . Converting Groups of F.K's into R.W Bde's seems to be the way the Übergangsheer formed the Reichswehr Brigades.

Opa's Opa may have been one of the men used to form R.W.Bde 22.Particularly if he was part of the security company mentioned above, this would be logical.

In which case it makes sense why his record as reported doesn't seem to include Reichswher service. As R.W.Bde 22 was not retained when the Reichswher was formed in 1921. He either was officially mustered out then or had already left service before that date.

What do People think?

Silverfang

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