"The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer

[captmix]

Tom….you are correct about “The Forgotten Soldier” being recommended reading for Marines. I have read that book and was impressed with the graphic descriptions of combat on the Eastern Front. Some may think that Guy Sajer is a fraud, I don’t.

Our Marine Corps fought in conditions similar to what the Germans experienced in the Russian winter. This was in Korea, especially around the Chosin Reservoir. If you haven’t read the book yet, I highly recommend “Break Out” by Martin Russ. I was struck by the similarities of the frozen misery experienced by the Marines there to the miseries of the Heer during their winter campaigns in Russia. The Marines were better equipped but fighting in 20 below zero weather is miserable no matter what. And the Chinese soldiers were just as ruthless as the Russian.

Tom Mix
USMC ret.

[gpp111]

Guy Sajer is certainly not a fraud. Surviving veterans of Grossdeutschland living in Germany remember Sajer, though they say he was assigned to a panzer support unit and not the infantry as he depicts in his book. I think Sajer's quotes tell all, that he wants to be left alone, and that he wrote the book in memory of his lost kamerads. It is said that "The Forgotten Soldier" is to be made into a major feature movie, the filming to be in Poland.

[Sebastian Pye]

It is very true about the memory. Im amazed at the level of detail these guys remember everything (the ones that write memoirs). My past life is just a big blur with small details here and there that I remember.

[B Hellqvist]

I've just begun reading the English translation of "The Forgotten Soldier", and if Sajer is a fraud, he would certainly have picked something more glorious than beginning service in a transport company... I think it might have suffered a bit in translation, too, or perhaps Sajer was inprecise; the vehicles called "tanks" in the first chapter sounds more like Hanomag artillery tractors than real tanks. As for details on military hardware: I read David Kenyon Webster's "Parachute Infantry" last year (recommended!), and there were a few errors there as well, but nobody can deny that Webster served in Easy Company, 506 PIR. I will continue reading my copy of TFS, confident that it is the genuine article.

[4444]

I can not help comparing Sajer with Degrelle. Both were Francophones, both have undergone the Eastern Front inferno, both served in elite units, both survived the agony and collapse of the Reich, both based their writings on recollections, both were disgraced and rejected in their homelands – so the comparison seems to make sense. Of course, it is difficult to ignore the differences: Sajer was conscripted while Degrelle volunteered (well, sort of), Sajer was a simple village boy while Degrelle was a political leader, Sajer joined the Nazi machine on the front while Degrelle was a Nazi sympathizer before the war, Sajer was a gefreiter while Degrelle commanded a division (well, sort of), Sajer was scared to speak with own officers while Degrelle debated with Hitler etc.

What prevails, similarities or differences? Does the Eastern Front look the same in both books? Not at all, I believe. Reading both pieces I have an impression the two men lived in parallel worlds. For Sajer, the war in the East was a naturalistic chaos, for Degrelle it was an ideological crusade. But if you corner me by asking whose book I would put higher as a documentary piece, I would vote for Sajer. All right, probably his memory got him wrong a number of times (including the famous right-or-left-hand issue), but I do not think he was consciously making it up. I think it is hard to find an author who admits self-defecating during combat at least three times.

[B Hellqvist]

I'm nearing the end of the book, and my conviction that Sajer is the real McCoy (von Koi?) has been strenghtened. Even allowing for errors made in the translation ("F.M." instead of "MG", "S.M.G." instead of "20 mm cannon"(?), etc), and Sajer's sometimes less than accurate memory, I think it is still a highly readable personal account.

A friend and I discussed the book today, and drew parallels between Sajer and Hans von Luck. von Luck saw as much action (on most fronts) as any frontline officer in the Wehrmacht, but the tone in the two books couldn't be more different. Sajer, a teenage grunt without much experience of pretty much anything, is swept along by events, while the older and more confident von Luck manages to turn the war into a pretty exciting romp. He even takes his years as a POW in the stride, and returns pretty much intact, while Sajer is damaged for the rest of his life. I wonder how many 1000's of traumatized young men tried to readapt, but failed...

[Frederick L Clemens]

You guys are a hoot!!!

Sajer could have made a mint if he had just written a series like Sven Hassel did. Why would a fabricator stop at one book when his tall tales sell so well? Maybe he got off so much on the idea of being thought of as a second Erich Maria Remarque that he didn't want to spoil it with repeated doses of his drivel.

Did you ever stop to think why his book is basically unknown in Germany? (I have never seen a single copy in 20 years of going to new and used bookstores there.) Yeh, military books are not big as a rule in Germany, but not even the specialty military bookstores carry his book - which should tell you that it isn't even a good fiction book. I would wager that the average issue of Der Landser sells more copies in a month than Sajer has in total.

Some day - if there is any justice in this world - Sajer will be the Forgotten Fabricator.

[Christian]

Sajer will be the Forgotten Fabricator

I second that one Frederick.

Guy Mouminoux, also know in the comics industry as Dimitri Lahache and in the publishing industry as Guy Sajer, was born on 13.01.1927. He was 15 years old in 1942, when the compulsory military service was introduced in Alsace.

The Ordinance was supplemented by the following orders (per information provided during the trial of Robert Wagner, Gauleiter for Alsace):

Order of 27.8.42, by which the 1920-24 classes were called up.

Order of 5.11.42, by which military service was made compulsory with retroactive effect as from 25.8.42, for all persons acquiring German nationality.

Order of 1.1.43, calling up the 1914-1919 classes.

Order of 1.10.43, concerning sanctions against deserters, persons failing to comply with call-up orders for military or labour service, and against their relatives.

Order of 9.9.44, extending compulsory military and labour service to the 1928 class.

Order of 25.10.44, extending to Alsace the operation of the Order of the Führer concerning the Volkssturm, and involving all able-bodied men from 16-60 years of age.

I have also seen the claim that he was drafted because his mother was German, however I have a hard time swallowing the story that a 16 year old was drafted in 1943 and send to the Russian front. Although I have not read the book, I understand that he never went through the RAD!!??

Cheers,

Christian

[Frederick L Clemens]

Oh yes, Christian, of course he was so highly qualified that he skipped any pre-military or technical training and they accepted him right away for "Rudel's Stukas" as he claims. Although, he got washed out early, he also claims to have spent a number of wonderful hours flying the Stuka!! I guess Alsatians didn't need to waste time with trainer aircraft - they jumped right into the front-line combat planes.

Seriously though, his lies about flight training on the very FIRST PAGE of his book should be enough to explain that these excuses of "poor memory" or "bad translation" are hogwash.

[B Hellqvist]

Oh yes, Christian, of course he was so highly qualified that he skipped any pre-military or technical training and they accepted him right away for "Rudel's Stukas" as he claims. Although, he got washed out early, he also claims to have spent a number of wonderful hours flying the Stuka!! I guess Alsatians didn't need to waste time with trainer aircraft - they jumped right into the front-line combat planes.

Seriously though, his lies about flight training on the very FIRST PAGE of his book should be enough to explain that these excuses of "poor memory" or "bad translation" are hogwash.

Perhaps "poor memory" and a poor English-to-English translation can explain why you turn Sajer's "Unfortunately, I fail to pass the Luftwaffe tests, but those few moments on board the JU-87's will stay with me as a glorius memory" (p.11) into "a number of wonderful hours flying the Stuka!!"... I don't know about the original text, but in the English edition, nothing is ever said about him flying the plane - perhaps he just got the chance to sit in the pilot's seat while the Stuka was parked. That would make an impression on anybody, I'm sure. He doesn't say one word about any flight training, either, so before you call Sajer/Mouminoux a liar, you could do well to at least quote him word for word, and not make up claims not present in the text.

[Christian]

Here is a link to an interview given by Dimitri aka Guy Mouminoux aka Guy Sajer in December 2003.

http://www.brusselsbdtour.com/interview ... imitri.htm

J'étais encore dans la marine nationale, c'était juste après la guerre, en 1946 je pense.

He claims that he was serving in the French Navy in 1946 (Probably a French aircraft carrier ). Given the fact that he was 19 at the time, this could indeed correspond to the compulsory military service requirement in France. However, I know several real "malgrés-nous" from Alsace and not a single one was required to serve a year in the French forces after the war. Isn't that strange?

BrusselsBdTour : Votre roman, "Le soldat oublié", publié chez Robert Laffont sous le pseudonyme de Guy Sajer vous a valu d'être qualifié d' "auteur maudit" de la BD française. Regrettez-vous de l'avoir publié ?
Dimitri : Pas le moins du monde. Si j'ai choisi de publier mon roman sous un pseudonyme était justement pour ne pas tout mélanger.

It is interesting that he describes the "Improbable Soldier", sorry the "Forgotten Soldier", as a "roman" which in French means "novel". In short people, we are talking about fiction. Why would he not refer to his book as his "mémoire"? Isn't that strange?

Quand l'Alsace, où je vivais, a été annexée par l'Allemagne, j'avais 16 ans. D'un camp de jeunesse à Strasbourg, je passe à un camp de jeunesse à Kehl, en Allemagne. L'Arbeitsdienst, un groupe militarisé mais non armé n'était pas très glorieux. On rêvait d'être de vrais soldats, en ignorant tout de la guerre. Par un enchaînement naturel, je me retrouve dans la Wehrmacht, l'armée allemande.

Alright, he explains that he started in a youth camp in Strasbourg, then moved to a youth camp in Kehl, then went to the RAD and was incorporated in the Wehrmacht. This scenario is plausible, however it would mean that he came out of RAD in mid-1944 and would have been sent to a military unit for further training. In short, what he tells in this interview actually could have happened, however this is quite a different story from what he wrote in the "Improbable Soldier". Isn't that strange?

" Le Soldat Oublié " a été réédité des dizaine de fois, et a rapporté une fortune à Robert Laffont. Il m'a permis de vivre pendant des années.

And here is the kicker, he states that the "Improbable Soldier" made a fortune for the publisher Robert Laffont and it was his major source of revenue for years. Now that is not strange, it is just good business sense.

Cheers,

Christian

[Frederick L Clemens]

Perhaps "poor memory" and a poor English-to-English translation can explain why you turn Sajer's ....before you call Sajer/Mouminoux a liar, you could do well to at least quote him word for word, and not make up claims not present in the text.

Okay, I apologize that I did not have my copy of "Quotes from Chairman Sajer" in my back pocket when I made my post. I realize what a crime that must seem to the Indocrinated.

Here's a Sajer quote from that same section which shows that he is a liar and a fabricator:

Page 1, "At my request, I am assigned to the 26th section of the squadron commanded by Flight Commandant Rudel."

- No such thing as a 26th section of a squadron (Staffel). A Staffel usually had 9 bombers or 12 fighters, certainly not 26 of anything.
- Rudel in Sep 42 (not Jul 42) became Staffelkapitaen for 1./StG2 on East Front (nowhere near Chemnitz)
- No enlistee could request such a specific assignment unless his father was Hermann Goering
- Sajer makes no mention of any prior flight or technical training whatsoever which is absurd considering his specific request for assignment with Rudel. The competition for flight candidates was intense, no authentic pilot trainee would ever forget or leave out his motivation for wanting to be a pilot or the hardships of his training period. He says later that training for the infantry was much more severe than for the infantry - that can only be said by someone who never went near pilot training. Luftwaffe Pilot candidates were severely tested both mentally and physically.

So in one sentence Sajer gets every detail wrong and demonstrates that he has a romantic notion of what pilot training was like. His time in the Stuka is a "glorious memory" only in the minds of the naive.

[B Hellqvist]

Okay, I apologize that I did not have my copy of "Quotes from Chairman Sajer" in my back pocket when I made my post. I realize what a crime that must seem to the Indocrinated.

Please line up by the wall over there and prepare to be clobbered to death with Sven Hassel hardbacks.

What is a war autobiography? A war novel? The line has been blurred for well over a century. Stephen Crane's "The Red Badge Of Courage" is hailed as one of the very first "psychological" war novels, yet it was written by a man too young to have participated in the ACW (not that he ever claimed to). Robert Graves' WW1 autobiography "Goodbye To All That" is a classic, yet Siegfried Sassoon had issues with Graves' portrayal of some events. The same Sassoon wrote his autobiographical novels "Memoirs Of A Fox-hunting Man" et al, but used the name Sherston for his protagonist. Frederic Manning was another WW1 writer who used his experiences in his highly realistic autobiographical novel "The Middle Parts Of Fortune", and he was at the front for a longer time than Erich Maria Remarque, whose classic "All Quiet On the Western Front" was based on experiences made in less than a couple of months at the front.

Moving on to WW2, there are many autobiographical works and countless novels. Hans von Luck's "Panzer Commander" is a good read, and probably as accurate as anything out there. As for Guy Sajer's book, I think it can be put in the "autobiographical novel" category. As other have cautioned, the book cannot be read as a unit history on the "Grossdeutschland" divison, nor is it likely to be 100% accurate in the depiction of events, but there are too many things, too many details that don't ring false for the book to be dismissed out of hand. Aforementioned errors (by the author or the translator) notwithstanding, can we say that "The Forgotten Soldier" is a poor war novel/autobiography/whatever? I finished it last night, and found it to be among the best in its category. It will never satisfy the rivet-counters, but for those of us looking for gripping war stories, it fulfills its task admirably.

[Frederick L Clemens]

Personally, I look for honesty as the first qualification for an auto-biography - otherwise it simply is not an autobiography, it is a fantasy and time-waster. Sajer fails miserably in the honesty category and I believe that the reasons he has gotten a pass by American and British readers on this for all these years are three:
- the overall dearth of Landser accounts in English, therefore Sajer wins by default
- the relatively low level of German historical-technical and linguistic knowledge which these English readers possess, so that the sheer quantity of Sajer's errors and fabrications simply do not register with them.
- the popular notion that what a vet says or writes by definition is true or more authentic, as if war makes every man honest and noble.

I too was a Sajer enthusiast when I was in high school and I think it is great that people want to read a book like the one which Sajer's is supposed to be. But Sajer isn't the real thing - it is a grotesque distortion. The real shame is not that people read and praise Sajer - it is that people will re-read his book rather than move on to the honest soldier accounts in English and German.

[captmix]

Clemens, I have been reading your and Christian’s critique of Sajer’s book and would like to comment. You two have nit-picked statements in his story as justification that he is liar as has some others before you. But at the same time there are many who believe his saga is true and I am one of the latter. Guy Sajer was very young and not a professional soldier. And what happened to him was a long time ago.

What this really comes down to is this, you do not know for certain if this book is factual or not. And neither do I. You state that “people should move on to the honest soldier accounts in German and English.” But can you unequivocally state that Hans von Luck or Herbert Werner (Iron Coffins) did not exaggerate or describe events differently than what actually happened? You and I were not there, we have to give the authors the benefit of the doubt.

I would like to point out that “The Forgotten Soldier” is on the U. S. Marine Corps’ reading list for young Marines to give them a basic understanding of what they may expect when their time comes for combat. The Marine Corps does not get into whether Sajer’s book is true or not, but his graphic descriptions of his experiences in combat is well worth reading and it certainly is not a “time waster.”

You have the right to express your opinion as do I. But why not give it a rest?

Thomas Mix
Capt. USMC ret.