book on 31st SS _ volksdeutsche in ss ?

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baerchen
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book on 31st SS _ volksdeutsche in ss ?

Post by baerchen » Sat Apr 05, 2003 4:56 pm

I recently bought the book by Rudolf Penzcz on the 31st SS division and found it well researched .
(we already had a topic on this, i think. i found it not too dry, it was ok. :wink: )
however, it is not cheap, i paid $ 53.

i was wondering if there are other books on volksdeutsche ( serbia/croatia/hungary/romania ...) in waffen-ss units ? i know of the book about "handschar" _ any others ??

just curious....

baerchen

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Post by pimberg » Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:45 pm

Baerchen,

Try:
- The two Otto Kumm books on the 'Prinz Eugen' Division
- S. Heinz Landau's book 'Goodbye Transylvania'
- "Die Tausend-Mann-Aktion" - a booklet on the first Rumanien (Volksdeutsche) volunteers.
There's also another book coming out soon on the Volksdeutsche in the Prinz-Eugen division.

Regards,
Peter

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baerchen
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Post by baerchen » Sun Apr 06, 2003 4:14 am

peter,

many thanks for the information ! it's exactly what i was looking for. :wink:

baerchen

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Post by George Lepre » Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:07 am

Hi guys -

I totally agree with your comments about Rudi Pencz and his book. He is a fine fellow and I'm proud to call him a friend.

I would say that there are two topics concerning the Hungarian Volksdeutsche in the Waffen-SS that still need to be covered:

a) The political side of the recruiting, i.e. the negotiations between the SS-Hauptamt and the Hungarian government;

b) A detailed history of the 22. SS-Kav. Div. "Maria Theresia." (Rudi should write this.)

Best regards,

George

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Post by Mark C Yerger » Sun Apr 06, 2003 2:00 pm

I liked the 31st history very much (I like dry factual personally), doubt anyone can add to it aside from some biographical data on individuals and a couple name corrections. Its a different type of presentation than George's book (among my 10 best Waffen-SS book list in my own opinion). Regards the 22nd SS, it is covered within volume 3 of my German Cross series though the social and political aspects of the unit and its personnel are outside the scope of what I'm doing.

Mark

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31SS

Post by Paul Timms » Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:32 am

As one of the (possibly the only) person to call it dry i would like to qualify it is an excellent book. Its only real fault was sometimes it referred in such detail to actions and places not easy to find on the map. This meant the action wasn't easy to follow.
On a forum where we endlessly debate the best SS Divisions the high numbers nearly always come off badly. but i would rate this unit very highly, despite poor training, massive odds and only around 50% being armed it fought an efficent defence and parts were still attacking in May 45.
My ignorance of the true nature of events in Czechoslovakia after the armistice was also revealed.

I bought it as soon as it came out and did not regret the 28 pounds i spent.

heinz kling

SS Kavallerie Divisionen

Post by heinz kling » Mon Apr 07, 2003 5:48 pm

I thought Hans Bayer wrote a book on Florian Geyer and Maria Theresa.

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Post by George Lepre » Mon Apr 07, 2003 6:58 pm

Hi guys -

Mark Yerger said that Bayer published a text volume along with his Bildband on the Waffen-SS cavalry. If he did, it is long out of print and not widely available. Moreover, I do not know if Bayer's work would truly be definitive; I believe that if a young historian like Rudi or Roland Pfeiffer were to cover the 22. SS-Kav.Div., that they might do a better job than Bayer could under the circumstances of his time. Here's why:

a) Bayer would have had to cover two divisions in one book, and certainly more attention would be paid to the older (Stamm) division, Florian Geyer.

b) Bayer must have written the book many years ago, perhaps at a time when Himmler's files (BA NS-19, microfilmed by the Americans as Microcopy T-175) and those of the German ambassador to Hungary (PA-AA, microfilmed by the Americans as T-120) were not yet open to researchers. These documents are EXTREMELY valuable sources when writing about Volksdeutsche or non-German units.

c) The Hungarian archives are now open to researchers. Rudi, who lives in Hungary, can now go to Budapest and read the Horthy government's files regarding the drafting of Hungarian Volksdeutsche into the Waffen-SS (this is where most of Maria Theresia's soldiers came from). He can also visit local city and town archives to find information on the fighting "MT" saw in Hungary prior to Budapest. He can learn of the fates of those Volksdeutsche who remained in Hungary after the war (more than one would think) under the post-war Communist government. The records of the Hungarian Red Cross and other organizations are available, as is Communist literature, which must be used with caution but can yield good leads.

d) More and more Soviet material is becoming available, thus providing more insight on their side of the battles.

Mark - I didn't know that you covered Maria Theresia. I'll have to buy that book for sure!

Best regards,

George Lepre

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Post by pimberg » Tue Apr 08, 2003 12:28 am

George,

You're quite correct about the Bayer book. Furthermore the Michaelis book on the SS-Cavalry provides little valuable information.
Hans-Otto Wachter from the vets. association has privately published a large range of books on the SS-Cav. The picture material alone is something special; but again it's focussed more on the 'Florian Geyer'.
Another book of value re. the Volksdeutsche is Valdis Luman's book "Himmler's Auxiliaries". It's certainly worth reading.

Peter

heinz kling

Hanns Bayer

Post by heinz kling » Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:59 pm

The book was written in 1980 ( I have a copy!) and published by the Truppenkameradschaft der Kavallerie-Divisionen Florian Geyer, Maria Theresa , Lützow und deren Ersatzeinheiten and totalling over 400 pages, and MT was covered from page 260 onwards. The bibiography cited both published secondary sources, KTB from the SS-Kavallerie Division, HG Süd as well as Tagebücher and unpublished manuscripts.
Last edited by heinz kling on Wed Apr 09, 2003 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by George Lepre » Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:06 pm

Looks like I have two buy TWO books now - Mark's and Bayer's!

heinz kling

Try writing to Bayer

Post by heinz kling » Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:38 pm

And see if the book is still available (if he's still alive). The address is 6901 Gaiberg/Heidelberg.

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Post by pimberg » Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:49 pm

I'm pretty sure Hanns Bayer died a few years ago.

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Post by Mark C Yerger » Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:23 pm

I have the Bayer text volume, Hans Göhler (KC) told me 500 were printed. It does well considering he had no BDC info, its a unit history. Some of the Brigade actions, and its history overall, are glanced over. The division's records are good into late 1943 but complicated. The GC holders drive me nuts research wise, that volume is a 2004 release (volume 3) in my German Cross Holders of SS/Police series. This year will only see vols 1 and 2 released. I have the first 240 pages of design back from Bender Publishing for approval (vol. 1). Vol. 2 the manuscript is done except for photo captions and some index work. As planned they're averaging 400-425 pages per volume with a large amount of data aside from the individual biographical information. The units after SS Cavalry will be Polizei Division and "Nordland." Anyone with material of use is requested to contact me, outside of vet help I've had no replies from collectors or historians. By the way, the newer printed GC in Silver volume has a vastly improved cover/binding quality wise.

Best
Mark
Last edited by Mark C Yerger on Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Marc Rikmenspoel
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Post by Marc Rikmenspoel » Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:43 pm

I have one of Wachter's books, his first I believe, Wir Funkten, which as the name indicates was primarily about SS-NA 8. Peter, could you or someone please describe the contents of some of his other books? I see them listed sometimes on Walpurgius' book site, but without the specific coverage of each volume. Wir Funkten is fascinating, but that and the others tend to be VERY expensive. [/i]

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