Joachim Peiper by Jens Westemeier

Book discussion and reviews related to the German military.

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Annelie
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Post by Annelie » Thu May 31, 2007 4:27 am

Fair analysis.

As someone whom has read the book also mentions to me
book on Peiper has a lot of interesting factual information, both in the main text and extensive footnotes that follow each chapter.
but I will have to ignore his repeated opinions and agenda of discrediting Peiper and the W-SS in general. I guess I will buy Patrick Agte’s book on Peiper and compare the both.
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Post by Annelie » Thu May 31, 2007 4:30 am

How about reinstating Pzmeyer2 and Ragin' Cajun. A forum without dissent isn't a forum.
I agree and second it.

:up:
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Post by Marko » Thu May 31, 2007 4:32 am

What won't some people do to discredit others really pathetic!

At least get the facts straight - HSSPF c&p one of Mark Yerger's posts but forgot to use the quote function.

Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating » Thu May 31, 2007 4:50 am

Image

Do you mean this post? Which part of it was copied and pasted from one of Mark Yerger's posts? Help me out here. Be nice and save me the time and trouble of going through all of Mark's posts to find the passage in question. If HSPPF isn't Mark Yerger, I think we need to clear this up immediately because quite a few people think HSPPF is indeed Mark Yerger!

Moreover, HSPPF is clearly erudite in his deployment of the English language and does not deny it when someone points out the signature. As I said, many writers use pseudonyms and, indeed, probably have more of a right to do so than others, given some of the loons out there.

PK

Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating » Thu May 31, 2007 5:21 am

Well, Marko, I just ran some searches on keywords from the text you state was copied and pasted from a Mark C Yerger post by "HSPPF" in the "HSPPF" post signed by Mr Yerger and I could find no trace of any such post on Feldgrau from Mark Yerger. HSPPF was therefore not quoting Mark Yerger in the above post. It would seem reasonable, therefore, to say that HSPPF is a pseudonym used by Mark Yerger, who has never refuted the signature appearing on that post.

:D

PK

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Post by Marko » Thu May 31, 2007 5:25 am

Do you mean this post? Which part of it was copied and pasted from one of Mark Yerger's posts? Help me out here. Be nice and save me the time and trouble of going through all of Mark's posts to find the passage in question.


Yes, that's the post (Deplorable,....) but don't waste your time [edit: I see I was too late] trying to find the original Yerger's post as the whole thread was deleted.

Well, I'm here long enough to know that HSSPF isn't identical with Mark Yerger. For one he lives on a different continent :D .

Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating » Thu May 31, 2007 5:28 am

How convenient! Whatever the case, we're getting away from the focal point of the topic here, which is of course the intention.

We live in a democracy where you can write and publish pretty much what you want to, especially if the target is dead and no longer able to sue for libel or defamation. But readers are also free to pose questions, just as some people have questioned Mr Westemeier's new book. All I can see by way of response is the usual smoke and mirrors tactic, accompanied by much huffing, puffing and squealing from the usual suspects.

I have received three long, unpleasant PMs from Westemeier, yet, sadly, none of them contains any kind of credible defence of his position over the issue of Jochen Peiper's politics and how Westemeier dealt with them in the sample passage quoted several times in this topic. Quite how Mr Westemeier and his defenders expect to be taken seriously when indulging in these antics - someone even tried to mailbomb me this morning - escapes me.

I did not even demolish Westemeier's writings. I simply asked about one particular passage because it seemed to contradict what Peiper himself is on record as saying in 1967.

PK

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Post by KG voss » Thu May 31, 2007 6:08 am

Having had yet another PM from Mr Westemeier, suggesting that I am having "fun", I'd like to assure anyone labouring under that impression that I have nothing personal against Jens Westemeier.
Well, it is too bad that Mr Westemeier is suggesting that you are having "fun" as I don't think and don't feel it is the case at all, moreover it is not a very nice attitude from him if he suggested that. I think Paddy's post are respectful of jen's work and I would add that he did a great job at finding factual informations and that is all to his credits. Now I have the feeling that Mr Westemeier might have been too much involved emotionnally for whatever reason in it's book and that is where some peoples clearly disagree with his conclusion wich show some strong and definitive judgements. The guy (Peiper) was certainly a very complex mind and it is certainly very hard to find what he really was or wasn't. Now let's not forget that a guy (whoever) should be judge innocent as far as there are no strong evidence of it's culpability.

I would conclude that a book wich show Peiper's life in a only negativ or positiv way can not IMO be an objectiv bio. things are not as simple as that unfortunately and I see this everyday in my job, and Peiper's life is certainly no exception to that.
Quote:
How about reinstating Pzmeyer2 and Ragin' Cajun. A forum without dissent isn't a forum.



I agree and second it.
I'll second that :up: Pzmeyer2 rewiew is well worth a read. If Jason pipes is around maybe he could say something...

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KG voss
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Post by KG voss » Thu May 31, 2007 6:13 am

someone even tried to mailbomb me this morning - escapes me.
So Paddy, that clearly show that intolerance is not the exclusivity of the nazi... :wink:

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Post by M.H. » Thu May 31, 2007 7:29 am

I wonder if we could convince Herrn Westemeier to come out and talk about his book with interested readers...

All very respectful of course!

That would help clear the air....

:D

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Post by John P. Moore » Thu May 31, 2007 8:26 am

Just for the record - Timo Worst and I had our differences a few years ago. We have since patched things up. The topic here is the Peiper book by Jens Westemeier and the discussion here is not furthered by making indirect personal attacks on the alleged past behavior of Timo Worst, Mark Yerger and others.

I have nearly finished reading the new Peiper book. It has its good points and then there are some things that I disgree with. As I said earlier, I'll post a detailed review AFTER I finish reading the entire book.

John

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Post by Uncle Joe » Thu May 31, 2007 9:54 am

Regarding Jens Westemeier, based on a PM I received from him, he is not too fluent in English so that might be a factor he does not participate in the discussion very often. So, keep criticism fair, despite "cruxifying".

Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating » Thu May 31, 2007 10:28 am

Mr Westemeier is quite fluent enough to make himself very well understood to me! In the end, Peiper will always be a contentious subject, not least because of the widespread feeling that "he got away with it" in relation to the Malmédy massacre. As people have said, the best course is to read all credible and even non-credible sources and draw your own conclusions. The truth probably lies somewhere in between Mr Westemeier's original book and his rewrite.

PK

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Post by michael kenny » Thu May 31, 2007 11:19 am

Paddy Keating wrote: someone even tried to mailbomb me this morning - .
I know the feeling. Once at another forum the owner told me he was going mail bomb me and destroy my credit record ect. Then someone tried to do exactly that.
I wish I could remember the site name but I really couldn't give 2 honts.........................!!!!!!!

Paddy Keating

Post by Paddy Keating » Thu May 31, 2007 12:01 pm

Let's try and stick with the topic, Michael. The trouble you get yourself into on other websites isn't really relevant here.

PK

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