Psychologisch sehr unangenehm würde es sich natürlich auswirken, wenn Rommel tatsächlich gezwungen würde, zurückzugehen. Aber so weit ist es noch nicht, wenn ein solcher Plan auch verschiedentlich ins Auge gefaßt wird.
The psychological effects would be very unpleasant, of course, if Rommel actually was forced to withdraw. But at present it's not entirely out of the question that such a plan will be envisaged on occasions.
It's the second sentence I've been struggling with.
And now back to a bit of Goebbels
Moderator: John W. Howard
- Richard Hargreaves
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And now back to a bit of Goebbels
No-one who speaks German could be an evil man
Re: And now back to a bit of Goebbels
Maybe:
It would of course have a very unpleasant psychological effect if Rommel were forced to withdraw. But we are not yet at the pint where such a plan has to be considered more than once.
But I'm not to sure, verschiedentlich looks strange here but perhaps my German's strange
It would of course have a very unpleasant psychological effect if Rommel were forced to withdraw. But we are not yet at the pint where such a plan has to be considered more than once.
But I'm not to sure, verschiedentlich looks strange here but perhaps my German's strange
Regards
Howard
Howard
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Re: And now back to a bit of Goebbels
Cheers Howard.
Good job he wasn't in the communications business.
Good job he wasn't in the communications business.
No-one who speaks German could be an evil man
Re: And now back to a bit of Goebbels
Hello Richard and Howard !
I am in a little disagreement on the second half of the second sentence, as I think it says that the
considerations of such a plan are taking place now, not in some time in the future.
In priciple Howard is quite right here, the crucial point is the potential meaning of : "verschiedentlich".
And that could depend a little bit of the context (is he referring to El Alamein?).
The term "verschiedentlich" could refer to considerations of different persons or Headquarters,
e.g. Commando Supremo, OB Süd etc., at one point in time. Then I would translate it to :
"We are not there yet, although such a plan is already considered by different sides (by some /by some persons/headquarters)."
On the other hand it could refer to different instants of time (i.e. now and at some time(s) before),
e.g. caused by changes in the own supply / manpower situation and/or the changing strength of the enemy.
In that case, I would prefer to translate it to :
"We are not there yet, although such a plan is already taken into consideration at times."
Maybe this one is vague enough to come close to the "one size fits all" translation :
"We are not there yet, although such a plan is already envisaged occasionally."
BTW, the German term "in's Auge fassen" should refer to a very early stage of planning, so I am not sure
what would a good english verb to reflect that fact. Maybe to ponder (or muse ?) instead of envisage /consider ?!
Best regards ,
hero.
I am in a little disagreement on the second half of the second sentence, as I think it says that the
considerations of such a plan are taking place now, not in some time in the future.
In priciple Howard is quite right here, the crucial point is the potential meaning of : "verschiedentlich".
And that could depend a little bit of the context (is he referring to El Alamein?).
The term "verschiedentlich" could refer to considerations of different persons or Headquarters,
e.g. Commando Supremo, OB Süd etc., at one point in time. Then I would translate it to :
"We are not there yet, although such a plan is already considered by different sides (by some /by some persons/headquarters)."
On the other hand it could refer to different instants of time (i.e. now and at some time(s) before),
e.g. caused by changes in the own supply / manpower situation and/or the changing strength of the enemy.
In that case, I would prefer to translate it to :
"We are not there yet, although such a plan is already taken into consideration at times."
Maybe this one is vague enough to come close to the "one size fits all" translation :
"We are not there yet, although such a plan is already envisaged occasionally."
BTW, the German term "in's Auge fassen" should refer to a very early stage of planning, so I am not sure
what would a good english verb to reflect that fact. Maybe to ponder (or muse ?) instead of envisage /consider ?!
Best regards ,
hero.
Re: And now back to a bit of Goebbels
Hi Richard,
You sure know how to pick them, mate. I tend to agree with hero. I would personally translate it thus: "However, it's currently not entirely out of the question, as such a plan is being considered by various proponents."
- Hans
You sure know how to pick them, mate. I tend to agree with hero. I would personally translate it thus: "However, it's currently not entirely out of the question, as such a plan is being considered by various proponents."
- Hans
Was haben wir für dich gewollt
Du deutsches Vaterland?
- H Gehr IR 21./17.ID
Du deutsches Vaterland?
- H Gehr IR 21./17.ID
Re: And now back to a bit of Goebbels
Hi folks,
this sure is a tricky one. Maybe a bit more context would help, as hero suggests. I still think the implication is that such a plan has not yet been contemplated but I'm open to persuasion
this sure is a tricky one. Maybe a bit more context would help, as hero suggests. I still think the implication is that such a plan has not yet been contemplated but I'm open to persuasion
Regards
Howard
Howard
- Richard Hargreaves
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Re: And now back to a bit of Goebbels
Danke, meine Herren, for all your efforts so far. I'd better use this snippet when I actually get around to writing the bloody book.
As for context, here's the whole, pertinent segment:
As for context, here's the whole, pertinent segment:
Luckily, I'm now up to mid-September having begun with late March (only have to go to mid-November...). The diary is a first-rate source, but it is voluminous and not always an easy translate.
7/7/42
...
Die Lage in Nordafrika ist nicht gut. Wir stellen sie deshalb mit größter Zurückhaltung dar, was übrigens auch die Engländer tun. Es ist nicht zu bestreiten, daß wir dort augenblicklich eine gewisse Krise durchmachen. Rommel reorganisiert seine Truppen. Vielleicht wird er sogar gezwungen sein, sich wieder bis Mersa Matruh zurückzuziehen. Das wäre an sich nicht schlimm, wenn wir nicht die Hoffnungen des deutschen Volkes allzu hoch gespannt hätten. Dadurch, daß der Name Alexandria im Wehrmachtbericht genannt wurde und außerdem noch betont wurde, daß es uns gelungen sei, durch die El-Alamein-Stellung durchzustoßen, hat das Volk weitgehende Erwartungen an den nordafrikanischen Feldzug geknüpft, die sich im Augenblick noch nicht erfüllen können. Überhaupt ist es ein Fehler unserer militärischen Berichterstattung, daß wir, wenn wir im Begriff sind, große Siege zu erringen, manchmal etwas zu voreilig berichten und dann bei einem auch nur geringfügigen Rückschlag eine gewisse Desillusionierung des Volkes vornehmen müssen. In erhöhtem Maße war das ja im vergangenen Herbst im Ostfeldzug der Fall, und wir haben dafür sehr bitter zu büßen gehabt. Ich werde in Zukunft etwas mehr darauf aufpassen und dafür sorgen, daß wir die Siege nicht schon dann skizzieren, wenn wir sie noch nicht in Händen haben. Das soll nicht heißen, daß die Lage in Ägypten bedrohlich geworden wäre. Ich bin fest davon überzeugt, daß es Rommel gelingen wird, auch aus dieser schwierigen Situation wieder einen Ausweg zu finden. Auch die Engländer behandeln die ganze Entwicklung noch nicht so positiv, wie das zweifellos der Fall wäre, wenn sie größere Chancen zum Sieg hätten. Schwierig ist für uns selbstverständlich der Nachschub. Wenn Rommel auch bedeutende Vorräte erbeutet hat, so muß man doch auf der anderen Seite beachten, daß seine Truppen außerordentlich ermüdet sind, seine Motoren zum Teil defekt, die Panzer verbraucht, und ihm dann auch der Nachschub nicht zur rechten Zeit zugeführt werden kann. Alles das wäre halb so schlimm, wenn nicht die ganze Welt mit fiebernder Ungeduld nach Nordafrika schaute und durch uns etwas zu frühzeitig auf kommende Siege vorbereitet worden wäre. Psychologisch sehr unangenehm würde es sich natürlich auswirken, wenn Rommel tatsächlich gezwungen würde, zurückzugehen. Aber so weit ist es im Augenblick noch nicht, wenn ein solcher Plan auch verschiedentlich ins Auge gefaßt wird.
No-one who speaks German could be an evil man
Re: And now back to a bit of Goebbels
Hi Richard,
I'm digging in on this one until overwhelmed. Just thought, why not get an expert opinion by ringing the German language Dept. of your nearest Uni. I would be interested in the final conclusion.
Best
- Hans
I'm digging in on this one until overwhelmed. Just thought, why not get an expert opinion by ringing the German language Dept. of your nearest Uni. I would be interested in the final conclusion.
Best
- Hans
Was haben wir für dich gewollt
Du deutsches Vaterland?
- H Gehr IR 21./17.ID
Du deutsches Vaterland?
- H Gehr IR 21./17.ID
Re: And now back to a bit of Goebbels
I followed the spirit of your suggestion, Hans, if not the letter and decided to have lunch with a German friend and ask his opinion mid-course as it were! It seems that I was indeed wrong in believing that this plan hadn't been considered
The ensuing chat produced this:
But at the moment we are not yet at that point, even if such a plan is being contemplated in some quarters.
The ensuing chat produced this:
But at the moment we are not yet at that point, even if such a plan is being contemplated in some quarters.
Regards
Howard
Howard
- Richard Hargreaves
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Re: And now back to a bit of Goebbels
Gentlemen, many thanks. We have a consensus.
But methings, as one Deutschsprachiger says, "I'll be back"... if not necessarily on this one.
But methings, as one Deutschsprachiger says, "I'll be back"... if not necessarily on this one.
No-one who speaks German could be an evil man
Re: And now back to a bit of Goebbels
Hi Howard,
It's such a peculiar language at times [probably most of the time]. Whenever I translate something, I convince myself I'm wrong. There seem to be so many ways of saying the same thing. Well at least we have a go and try and help as best we can.
- Hans
It's such a peculiar language at times [probably most of the time]. Whenever I translate something, I convince myself I'm wrong. There seem to be so many ways of saying the same thing. Well at least we have a go and try and help as best we can.
- Hans
Was haben wir für dich gewollt
Du deutsches Vaterland?
- H Gehr IR 21./17.ID
Du deutsches Vaterland?
- H Gehr IR 21./17.ID