New member looking for information

[Granite]

Hello, stumbled across your site and could not stop reading, lots of really interesting history here.I am a canadian born to imigrant parents, who came from germany after the war.Growing up i heard many stories of the war years and post war hardships, that my grand mothers, parents, and uncles told me.They are sometimes very powerfull and emotional even after all these years, very much like some of what i have read on here posted by others.I want to learn more about my familys history, and document it before its gone.I am planning my first ever trip to germany for this spring, and hope to learn a little bit more about my familys past, and enjoy all that modern day germany offers, i am quite excited to finally go. That is how i found this site, while doing a little research on where and what i wanted to do while i was in germany.Then i saw the information on finding, mia and kia, german soldiers. I have to say it made me stop and think about the past and stories about my grand father on my mothers side. I really know very little about him, he was drafted in 1941 and supposedly sent to norway, and last seen in january 1945 in germany.After the war my grandmother made many attempts to find information i believe thru the red cross and goverment, but to the best of my limited knowledge about it he was mia and never found.I have been asking my mom and uncles about him,its a delicate subject, and they dont really know much as they were kids at the time so info such as what unit he served in and where they were last posted is not known to me.The information about finding mia is valuable and daunting at the same time, my german language skills are a little rusty.I guess the questions i am going to have to ask are, has anyone on the board any advice or experience in how i should proceed, with finding out information on my grandfathers unit and his last known possible position, his rank or service history? how daunting of a process is it, from my brief reading it can take some time to get info. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks, Richard.

[Hans]

Richard,

Your first stop should be WASt. Write to or visit: Deutsche Dienstelle, Eichborndamm 179, 13403 BERLIN. Give them as much info. as you have.
http://www.dd-wast.de

Get in touch with the Amtsgericht of the place your relative was born.

Also: Deutsches Rotes Kreuz, DRK Suchdienst, Chiemgaustrasse 109, D - 81549 Munchen.

and: International Tracing Service, International Red Cross, Grosse Allee 5 - 9, 34444 Bad Arolsen, Bundesrepublik Deutschland.

Whereabouts was he last seen?

- Hans
P.S. Be patient, these organisations have enormous workloads. However they do a great job, and once you have registered your interest they will advise you if there are any developments in the future.

[Granite]

Thank you for the reply and information Hans, i will gather as much info as i can and proceed. As to where he was last seen is not clear to me yet, the story is my grandmother,mother and uncles ran into him in the streets in a brief but poignant last meeting.They may have been refugees at this time so i am not sure on exact location, but i will try to find out by speaking to them about it and try to get more detail. Last i spoke with them i asked about the time when they headed west, they talked about being caught in a valley as a large battle raged around them, they hid under an over turned wagon in the ditch by the roadside. They were overun by the russians the next morning,russian tanks advancing shooting machine guns, my uncle a young boy at the time found it fascinating to watch the bullets kicking up all around them.My other older uncle said the tanks stopped for nothing crushing the dead horses, wagons and people, such horrible images still vivid to them as if it was yesterday.I mention this only because i would like to find the location of this battle, but now realize all of the country was fightihg a rear guard battle and was probably one big battle impossible to narrow down location.My grandmother is no longer alive, she would have known where this valley was, i will see if i cant find out more detail, but again my uncles were young scared boys and may not know.Will keep you posted on any interesting details, and again thank you. Richard

[Granite]

I had a wonderfull dinner with my mother and uncle, farmer sausge with fried patatoes yum yum. Naturally i asked for more information, and need to revise some information that may not be correct. My grandfathers name was Georg Mandau born 1909, lived in Wilkow Poland near the wisla river { weichsel river} in a small german village. I checked a modern map of Poland but did not see it but it is approximately 40km from Warsaw not far from Leoncin or Gniewniewice. In our talks we believe Georg may have been drafted in 1939, not 41 as mentioned before and that he was last seen in Poland not Germany in 1945. I have some other info but i need to do more research before i post it here. Anybody have info on the recruitment of German Poles after the 1939 invasion?

[Hans]

Richard,

Under the circumstances described, you should also write to:

Centr Archinoj Informacji I Rehabilitacji Zertw Politiczeskich Repreji
117 - 049 Moskwa
Ul, Zytniaja 16
Russia

They deal with POWs.

- Hans

[Annelie]

Hans

That is very useful information.

Thanks.

[Granite]

Yes very good information thank you i will contact them. Some other things i discovered, but have not yet verified, need to still speak to my oldest uncle and get more information. It appears my grand father Georg may have left his unit and come back in an attempt to save his family, this could also mean he was dressed as a civilian at that time. Wonder how that would affect his status if/when? he was captured? Pow or civilian, i guess from my recent study on the situation in Poland it would matter little, he would have been dealt with harshly. This is really interesting i hope i can discover more. Richard

[Annelie]

It appears my grand father Georg may have left his unit and come back in an attempt to save his family, this could also mean he was dressed as a civilian at that time. Wonder how that would affect his status if/when? he was captured? Pow or civilian

If that is true then if he was found by the military then we know
what would have happened. That would have meant he deserted
and the punishment absolute.

Hope you find everything your looking for. It means a lot to
know your family history.

Best

[Granite]

Yes if he did desert, and the Germans caught him it would have ended badly and if the Poles or Russians got him probably the same result.Kind of sad really that all he wanted to do was go to his family after so many years of war, for him the war started and ended in Poland. The facts are still cloudy and the timeline not known for sure. Would German soldiers still recieve leave or furlough in 1945 ? what month did the Russians reach the German Polish border?

[Granite]

Hello, i have posted two photos of my grandfather Georg in the picture gallery. One picture looks like a prewar polish? uniform. The second shows him in a german uniform. Any help with i.d. the uniforms would be greatly appreciated. Regards Richard.

[Granite]

It has been a long time since i last posted but i have an update.

I had posted earlier looking for information on my grandfather, and as suggested me and my mom sent off a letter to Wast and it was returned this week
We also had a nice trip to Germany in september Me my mom and my younger brother. I wont bore you with a long travelogue but will say we had a great time, met and talked to family and friends as we toured around , just a very enjoyable trip.
I was not sure we would have time to stop at the Wast in Berlin , but one morning we had time so i punched the address into the cars navi and off we went.
They had all ready been working on the file and after a few moments a card with some details of my grandfathers service was shown to us. Pretty much all the info on the card was new to us and shed some light on his years in service. I read the card but could not make out all the handwriting and information , but we talked with a very nice lady and with our rusty German we managed to talk about the information on the card. I asked if we could have a copy but she said no, she would however search for all documents and transcribe what was on the card and give us all information in our original mail request. We talked and she wrote down some information for us and we left.

Any way i have a fair amount of questions and thought i should continue my research here. I will post a short partial translation of some details from the letter from Wast. I have left the military details in german so as to not lose something in translation. I am not a military expert and didnt want to butcher the translation.

In reference to the above inquiry, i would like to let you know, that the personal of your father/grandfathers wehrpass/defence papers , wehrstammbuch/defence book , stammrolle/defence muster role are not at our organization. Most likely they were lost at war end.
From the records on hand we can state the following.
They give the date of birth information.
Identification badge: -476-4./I. E. B.492
Troop parts
Annoucment from 18.01.1942
and from 15.02.1942 4.(Mashinengewehr) Kompanie Infanterie Machine gun company infantry
Ersatz Bataillon 492 ?

Standort: Schroetterburg where/ what /


Announcement from 30.03.1942
and from 29.04.1942 Genesenden Marsch-Einheit 492 ?
Zugang von Armee-Oberkommando what does this say?
Norwegen this matches what we know that he served in Norway

Announcement from 09.05.1942 Radfahr Schwadron 233 Bicycle squadron 233 served in Norway?

Announcement from 10.04.1944
and from 10.10 1944 1.Division Fuesiliier Bataillon 196 Where did this unit serve
Aschliessend Lazarettaunfenhalt ?
Last announcement 06.12. 1944

Service Degree:
Announcement from 15.02.1942 Shuetze Private?
Announment from 15.08.1944 Obergefreiter ( no promotion dates given ) higher rank?
Military Hospital Stay 10.10-06.12.1944 Reservelazarett Oberhoff Where?
wegen Vewundung-Art der Verwundung nicht bekannt Wounded injuries unknown Thats about it for the letter. At our visit to the Wast we were given a note that he was seriously wounded and was in a military hospital at Nawa-Wies/Ostpr. on 15.08 1944 where is Nawa- wies East prussia?
After Dec.6/44 his where about is not known.

I would like to discuss the the german information on the right hand side to get a clear understanding of it. Regards Richard

[Granite]

I made an error when i posted i had it formatted a little different but you get the idea.

[HeinrichFrey]

Hello Granite,
now it makes sense. The Radfahr 233 belonged to the 196th ID which took part at the Weserübung (Invasion of Norway. Just take a look here:http://hem.fyristorg.com/robertm/norge/ ... on_OB.html. Informations about the division you`ll get here: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... /196ID.htm . In July 44 parts of the division were sent to Wilna (eastern front). Concerning the Fusileer-Battalion: Divisions-Füsilier-Bataillon 196:
Aufgestellt am 1. Februar 1944 in Norwegen mit vier Kompanien. Am 15.September 1944 in Korps-Sturm-Abteilung 427 umbenannt (source LDW). My conclusion: He was sent to the eastern front there wounded as the russians reached the german border in eastern prussia in winter 44/45. Severely wounded means that he had nearly no change to survive under this circumstances. Winter, no food, medics and so on and millions of russian soldiers running against the german border to take gruel revenge. Nevertheless he didn`t desert.

[Granite]

Thank you for the reply and links , i will study them and have further questions later.

I should fill out the story a little more. My grandfather did survive being wounded, after spending about three months in hospital he was released from hospital he made his way back to Poland. My grandmother mom and uncles ran into him in a street in a village not far from there own this was most likely late december early january. As told to me , they were very excited to see him and wanted to hug and talk to him but had to act like they did not know him. Apparently communist partisans or maybe even just locals who did not like the Germans had there eyes open for people to arrest in what was an increasingly chaotic time between one failing regime and the new regime. My grandmother and grandfather no doubt talked about plans to escape but it was the last time they ever saw him. He was dressed as a civilian at this time. Then came the families escape attempt they were overrun and captured and robbed by the Russians who stole the horses that pulled the wagon. Only later when my grandmother was asking local people from her village if anyone had news about her husband, she did get a vague third or fourth hand unconfirmed account that he had possibly been arrested and was in a Polish Prison. He was never seen or heard from again .

How would i go about finding information from Poland about people arrested after the German retreat, would they even have such records, are there any organizations in Poland that would have this information. I have not contacted the link to the russian pow site yet as i believe my grandfather never left Poland or that Polish prison alive but maybe i should it could be a longshot, do they respond to english letters.My grandmother contacted the red cross after the war and we have contacted them again and they replied that they are very busy but would try to help. I would like to know my grandfathers final resting place.

One other thing i find odd is that at our meeting at the Wast in Berlin, it was mentioned that he was in Hungary in 1943, but i see no reference to Hungary in the information in the letter. HeinrichFrey your information states they did not return until 44 is it possible they were back earlier in 43 , is Hungary considered east prussia.
I am going to study the links closer. One last question for now, what military role does a fuesilier bataillon 196 have, how would they be used in what purpose?