Who would you spend a day with

[Alex Dekker]

myself personaly i would have loved to spend a day with.
oberleutnant gunther viezenz k.c. 21tank destruction badges to his credit
he must have been one of the most bravest men around to achieve what he did.
his stories must have been just fantastic to listen to???
all the very best
charlieboy

Same here, though I got him on 2nd or 3rd place. Esp. since he survived the war and didn't talk much about his achievements. Number 1 would be my grandfather, 2 Viezenz and 3 Gestapo Müller. I still wonder, did he plan an escape from Berlin? Did he like his job? Did he had any friends? Why did he join the Gestapo? A day wouldn't be enough.

And the funny thing is, I've discussed this topic over a thousands times! With same of my friends, not online.

[charlieboy]

just a question
r/e oberleutant gunther viezenz
do any of you members know.
did he ever write his memoirs???, its is mentioned he was a quite man,
and did not talk much about this subject, after the war.
is their any records, details of his ''tank kills''
award documents, web sites etc,
a facinating man i would like to know some more about him.
any help would be most appreciated.
best wishes
micky

[Alex Dekker]

I remember an old discussion at ritterkreuz.de, where the same was pointed out about Viezenz. He didn't write his memoirs and, indeed, never or even rarely spoke about the war. The (in my opinion most interesting) point was about how many tanks he really had destroyed. It was stated it was lesser than the official statement, something Viezenz admitted. Also, if I remember it correctly, Viezenz was credited for tanks he didn't destroy, but since another soldier of his platoon did who died shortly after the fight, Viezenz got the honor.

[charlieboy]

hi lexiebabe
thanks for your very interesting comments
i am not quite sure how this decoration was approved at.
divisional level one would guess by eye witness accounts,
i assume, if there where many survivours in most cases. ''dangerous job tank hunting''
and lets be fair? wouldnt the evidence be there on the battlefield '' you cant hide burnt out tank's ''
so i think imho that he did rightly or wrongly achieve these decorations.
thanks for the reply, any sources
best wishes
micky

[Alex Dekker]

The same thing said then too. No matter how he did it, he was at least awarded with the Tank Destruction badges. Indeed, a pity he didn't tell how and when, as far as I know.

[charlieboy]

hi lexiebabe
''im trying to get into this mans mind at the end of the war ''
to many memories of very dear lost comrade's
those who did not make it, i can see where he is coming from.
its still a shame for people like me and you and others. who read history for what it is,
and would be enthralled reading, his and others experiences.
just being there in that moment on the battlefield and thinking what ''shall i do now''.
i can see personally why he never put pen to paper it must have been a most traumatic experience.
'' life or death''
and i think he just shut it out of his mind for ever more.
best wishes
mickey

[Alex Dekker]

http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de/index_for ... session=67

Found it! Vizenz 'only' destroyed 7 tanks:

Hi Paal Waland ! That´s a big mistake from you. Mr. Viezenz himself told a few collectors (of course when he was still alive), that his victory amount for the "Panzervernichter" was totaly 7 not 21. Kind regards Stefan Körlin

That's all! So my memory isn't that bad, still, I should cut down the drinking

[charlieboy]

hi everyone
lexiebabe
amazing info r/e your last post, and sources.
'' i really just dont know who to belive now ''
r/e gunther viezenz
i dont think this man would tell lies what would he gain by this.
but it was after the war, when he made those comments, i/e only 7 tank kills.
best wishes
micky

[Alex Dekker]

Hi Paal Waland ! The answere is easy. Like always in the life, somebode raced the victory amount of Viezenz or mulitiplized that with 3 and so on. But it´s a fact, that the total amount of vitories (tank) from Viezenz is 7 (seven). You can read this fact in his "Vorschlag für das Ritterkreuz" (application form for the K.C.). Kind regards S. Körlin

Below the earlier post is this one. I'm not judging anybody (including Viezenz), just quoting. And yes, I want to know too the details. If Viezenz didn't destroy 21 tanks, how did he obtain the badges? When? Where? Also, the 'Vorslag' was seen by Körlin.

[charlieboy]

my final question on this matter is,
does any person know where we can see his vorschlag as seen by s.korlin in his quote.
it must be somewhere,this surely can not be a private docoument.
history owes this to us to clarify. and end all specaulations
once and for all.
micky

[Alex Dekker]

It's at the Bundesarchiv, the document isn't accesible through through internet, but if you want more info, check http://www.bundesarchiv.de

[Alex Dekker]

Hallo! Nochmals zu dem ürsprünglichen Grund zurück. Ich habe in meinem Archiv die Kopie des Briefes von Herrn Viezenz an einen Sammlerfreund von mir gefunden.Der Brief datiert vom 17.06.1993.Herr Viezenz schreibt : "Mir wurden 1943 sieben Sonderabzeichen das Niederkämpfen von Panzerkampfwagen verliehen.Schon mehrfach wurde ich mit der Anzahl 21 konfrontiert, kann mir nicht vorstellen, wie es zu der falschen Zahl kam! In Beantwortung Ihres Schreibens vom 4.6. d.J. teile ich Ihnen mit, daß diese Angaben in den von Ihnen erwähnten Magazin falsch sind! Somit steht einwandfrei fest, daß Herr Viezenz 7 und nicht 21 Panzer vernichtet hat. In diesem Fall ist somit Klarheit da! M.Dörr

On the same page of the forum. Manfred Dörr points out Viezenz got in 1943 seven Abzeichen, end of story. He became a myth afterwards. Anyway, it must have been a hell of a job, hunting and destroying seven tanks.

[charlieboy]

hi lexiebabe
many thanks for all your hard work.
and your good memory.
best wishes
micky