Pionier Bataillon 662

German unit histories, lineages, OoBs, ToEs, commanders, fieldpost numbers, organization, etc.

Moderator: Tom Houlihan

User avatar
Ebusitanus
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:23 am

Post by Ebusitanus » Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:11 am

Christian wrote:How are you coming along with your research? Have you heard back from Bama?

Cheers,

Christian
Hi Christian,
BAMA wrote back but basically they have nothing new really, here let me share what they gave me:

*******, Jakob, born 20/05/1911 in Bergen-Enkheim

Adress: Bergen, Kreis Hanau, Bergweg 20
Mustered in: 26/07/1942
Tag: 5983-3./Pi.Ers.Btl. 213

Units:
From 26/07/1942 to 01/10/1942 3rd Company Pionier-Ersatz-Bataillon 213 at Strassbourg/Alssace.
Later 2nd and 4th Companies Pionier-Reserve-Bataillon 213

Report from 07/06/1943 Home Company (Stammkompanie) later March Company (Marschkompanie) Pionier-Ersatz-Bataillon 213 to City of Brieg.

Report from 16/06/1943 to 16/10/1943 3rd Company Pionier Bataillon 662 in Russia.

Herr ******* fell on the 16/10/1943 in Wlasskowo and was buried at the Gostilowo Cementery.

Last Rank: Gefreiter (No date of promotion)



Now...most of this I already knew although it seems that the 213 Ersatz Bataillon stayed longer than we thought in Strassbourg before getting transfered to the City of Brieg in Silesia.
What seems he had also a rather "pleasant" duty being at this reserve unit for almost a whole year before getting sent to the front in June 1943. I know from my grandmother that he had some "Party" conections that might have helped him on that. "Funny" enough is that he volunteered from his comfortable Party duty in the Generalgoverment at Krakow out of a mix of shame at his younger brother who had been in ranks already from 1939.

From Werner Haupt´s "Heeres Gruppe Nord" I have been able to tighten the nose a bit more around this man´s fate.

At pages 168 and 169 he writes about the Kalinin Front Offensive in October 1943 with the grand aim to take Vitebsk. That objective was not fullfiled but the initial attack on the 2nd Luftwaffe Field Corps the 6/10/1943 at the border between the Army Group Center 3rd Panzer Army and the Army Group North 16th Army archived a major breakthrough with the almost complete anihilation of the 2nd Luftwaffe Field Division. This debacle made a 5 km gap between both Army Groups and, worse, gave the important rail hub and storage City of Newel to a daring Soviet Coup de main by 30 tanks and some Inf on trucks.
This gap and the capture of this city was about the "only" success in a majorly "forgotten" battle as readable in Glantz´"Vol-V The Summer-Fall Campaign (1 July-31 December 1943) Part 1."
As the Soviet 3rd Shock Army struggled to widen this gap between both army groups on the north side of this breakthrough we can follow closely Gefreiter ******´s fate.
So we read on with Haupt how the German 263th Inf Div. does the impossible holding back the onslaught of scores of Soviet Rifle and Guard divisions between the Ivan Sea (South of Novolskolniki). More German reserves are sent to stop the Soviet push northwards (We are for the purpose of this research now leaving out the western and southern drama of this Newel breakthrough). We see the 58th, 122nd and the 69th German Inf Divs sent into this area to bolster the 263th.

Now we read:
The Soviets used the time between the 9th and the 15/10 to fill up their units. The 3rd Shock Army (General Major Galatzkij) began on this day a two pronged assault northward on both sides of the Ivan Sea with 13 Rifle divs, 2 Tank, 3 rifle, 1 Artillery brigade and 6 MG Battalions.
The 28th Rifle Div and the 100 Rifle Brigade broke through the land istmus between the lakes Ivan and Karataj. The 69th German Inf Div. (General Lt. Ortner) fought back in desperation. She went to the counterattack and restored the lines! The enemy lost 1850 counted dead and 120 POWs.
The 17th the 3rd Shock Army kept up the preassure against the 69th ID with another 5 Rifle Divs and one tank brigade but onlt took minimal terrain...this made the Soviets desist.
And around these events Gefreiter ****** fell. Vlascovo (where he died) is just between this area on the north east coast line of the Ivan sea. Gostilovo (where he was buried) a bit further to the north between the Ivan sea and Novosokolniki.

There is no mention about the 662th Pionier Bataillon in either Glantz´or Haupt´s work although both mention the desperate German effort in sending everything that could fight into closing the gap. The 662th as a XVI Army independent unit would surely have been sent into the fray.

My actual research now goes into locating the written memoires from as many German Inf divs that took part in the fighting in this northern area. I need to locate these:

Die Geschichte der 58. Infanterie-Division 1939-1945, by Kurt von Zydowitz

Bildband der rheinisch-pfälzischen 263. Infanterie-Division 1939-1945, by Heinz F. Krüger

Die 263. Infanterie-Division 1939-1979, 40 Jahre alt, by Franz Regnary

122. Infanterie-Division, Erinnerungen der pommersch-mecklenburgischen Greif­Division, by Helmut Weber

Sadly...I have not found any published work about the most likely candidate..the 69th ID.

As always any help is very much apreciated.
Last edited by Ebusitanus on Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:56 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Ebusitanus
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:23 am

Post by Ebusitanus » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:52 am

Long time no update...

So, I finally got a hold of Helmut Weber´s "122. Infanterie-Division".
On page 244 our mutual interests cross for a brief moment.

The 122 ID got thrown at the breakthrough area just south of the Karataj Lake where it attaempted several local counterattacks gaining some ground. While the grenadier regiments were fighting it out south of the lake, the baggage and supply unit of the I./ 409th GR was still NW of the lake at the small village of Lobatschewo, which was actually an area of the neighboring 69th ID. The village got attacked on the 15/10 by several companies of soviet inf that had apparently crossed the lake. Only six germans were to muster and tried to hold them back from a nearby bunker they retreated to. The Russians were all to busy looting the bagage train to push further. In that moment German reinforcements arrived and threw the soviets out of the village and when those tried to attack again got hit in the flank by some Pioniere units from the 69th ID. The Russian rout is complete and leaves many dead and wounded behind plus some POWs.

On the afternoon of the 14/10 was the I./A.R. 122 located behind the 69th ID area, covering the small land tounge between the Karataj and Iwan Lake. Here it was to bolster two Army Pioniere units that had been holding the area since the 6/10.
The only sound came in this day from the harrasment artillery shots on the Russian positions by the German artillery as the soviets remained silent. In the early morning the Soviets launch a full attack of several battalions supported with tanks that finally break the thin line of German Pioniere holding the forrest there throwing them back while trying to break through the thin land tounge between both lakes. The artillery positions hold till they fire their last rounds in direct fire, then they blow up their guns and retreat till they meet reinforcments sent by the 69th ID that along with the artillerist and Heer Pioniere throw the Russians back to their starting positions, leaving over 700 dead behind.

The story goes on....but could this battle be what we are looking for? The man died on the 16th, one day after this encounter. Wlasskowo is behind the front some miles to the north. Could it be that he might have died of his wounds there in some fieldlazaret there?

User avatar
Ebusitanus
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:23 am

Post by Ebusitanus » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:26 pm

Hello,
Just checking back and bump this thread as there might be new faces who could help in my quest.

panzerschreck1
Enthusiast
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:39 am

Post by panzerschreck1 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:38 am

Hi

69th ID was the right neighbour of Carius 503rd Schwere batallion (tiger) on the Narwa front (right side of the 'boot' and southeast from Narwa....

Hey maybe ask Rudi Feldgrau member (veteran ) he was in the neighbourhood.....small details but it might come in handy...

Besides wasn't the 69th later renamed Feldherrnhalle?
"Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."[

Jan-Hendrik
Patron
Posts: 1984
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 8:42 am
Location: Wienhausen
Contact:

Post by Jan-Hendrik » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:12 am

Carius 503rd Schwere batallion (tiger)
:shock: :shock: :shock:

Schwere Panzerabteilung 502 :idea:

It could not have been a neigbour as it was a Heerestruppe , so the Abteilung or its Kompanien were subordinated to the units in this sector from case to case ...

:[]

Jan-Hendrik

panzerschreck1
Enthusiast
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:39 am

Post by panzerschreck1 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:24 am

Oops 502nd i meant...... :oops:

But they were in the neighbourhood of the 69th...
"Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."[

User avatar
Ebusitanus
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:23 am

Post by Ebusitanus » Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:36 am

Yearly bump for new input of new sources.

User avatar
Ebusitanus
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:23 am

Re: Pionier Bataillon 662

Post by Ebusitanus » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:26 am

Friendly bump for some luck

User avatar
Ebusitanus
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:23 am

Re: Pionier Bataillon 662

Post by Ebusitanus » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:40 am

Since I have been posting my advances in this matter on this thread along the years. It is only fair that I will update it with the wonderfull news that I have received today from a friendly forum:

http://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/threa ... post149375
Hallo,

@Ebusitanus,
das Pi.Batl.662 unterstand vom 15.-20.Oktober 1943 dem Gren.Rgt.159 und lag an der Enge von Karatai.
Teile der 69.ID waren zuvor im Kampfmarsch in diesen Bereich verlegt worden.

Anbei einige Auszüge aus dem KTB der 69.ID,in denen das Batl. erwähnt ist.

Gruß
Jan
I suspected that the Pi.Batl.662 had been in close contact with the 69th during those fateful days, but actual confirmation to its detachment to the Gren.Rgt.159 has been great advance.

Only problem being that the official history of the 69th is like a private 5 book edition that is impossible to get your hands on. But here Jan actually gives me copies from the KTB of the 69th during those days with the Pi.Batl.662 several times being mentioned. I do not think it can get better than this.

Image

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Christian
Patron
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:24 am

Re: Pionier Bataillon 662

Post by Christian » Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:09 am

Nice to hear that your persistence paid off.
Best wishes.
Christian

User avatar
tigre
Patron
Posts: 6098
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:42 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Pionier Bataillon 662

Post by tigre » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:20 am

Hallo Ebusitanus :D; and thanks for sharing it with us................

Feliz Navidad - Feliz Natal - Frohe Weihnachten - Joyeux Noël - Merry Christmas :up:

Cheers. Raúl M 8).
Serás lo que debas ser o no serás nada. General José de San Martín.

User avatar
Ebusitanus
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:23 am

Re: Pionier Bataillon 662

Post by Ebusitanus » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:01 pm

Yes, I´m still alife and thought about fleshing out this old research thread of mine with some actual pictures.

Image

This one here is from the Divisionary history of the 263th. They had a divisionary cementery at the spot were my relative was buried. Now I only need to get there and find this rock lying around the village outskirts.

Image

This is the actual man in question.

Image

Here his death card

I hope to end up doing a final version of it all :)

Post Reply