KsTN for Ohren and Magen units

[MadDog]

Did Ohren or Magen units have a special KsTN, or did they use the standard KsTN for whatever type of formation they were ?

thanks,

Mad Dog

[John Winner]

I can't find a special KStN for either of them, as a matter of fact the only KStN I could find them in specificly was KStN 1302 Stab einer Heeressanitätsabteilung (mot)/Stab einer Armeesanitätsabteilung (mot) 1.4.1944, listed as Internist and Otologe.

[MadDog]

Thanks for checking John. About all I can conclude so far is that they seem to have generally been organized into btl. of 4 identical Kp. - at least for the time period of Sept-May 1945 on the west front.

thanks,

Mad Dog

[John Winner]

I certainly hope I understood what you were looking for. I was under the impression the you are looking for ear and stomach specialists. I that correct?

[Christoph Awender]

Hello,

John, he is meaning companies which consisted of soldiers suffering from Ohren(ear) or Magen- (stomach) "diseases".
Tom, I never saw a special KStN for them but I think I have some material about them and will look into it.

/Christoph

[John Winner]

Thank you for the clarification Christoph.

[MadDog]

Both you guys have it right. For example, 1224(O) was 4 Kp, each identical.

I have access to Valentin, but it doesnt really go into tactical detail.

thanks,

Tom

[hero.]

Hello !

I also couldn't find any special KStN for those Magen- and Ohren- units. The one KStN,
that comes closest to a "special" one is KStN 6015 for those Genesenden-Btl. D (Dänemark).
( We had mentioned those units in a previous post : viewtopic.php?p=230838#p230838 )

I think it is important, to distinguish between Ersatzheer-units and Feldheer-units.

1.) For the Ersatzheer units :
The KStNs for these units were held very general, so that the unit could easily adopt a structure,
depending on the actal needs. For a Stamm-, Genesenden- or a Marsch-Kp. (KStN 5080, 1.1.43) there
was only a Gruppe Führer, which included all necessary administrative and supply personnel.
(Depending on the size of the company, some additional personnel could be added.)

In case of a (Schützen-)Ausbildungs-Kp. (infantry trainings company), (KStN 6021, v. 1.1.43), there
was also this Gruppe Führer (with similar composition), but in addition 3 training platoons, and
a Granatwerfer-Trupp. Very similar to a pre-war Ersatz-Kp. :
http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn60211nov35.htm

Now, one interesting question is : How was a Magen- or Ohren-Ersatz-Bataillon organized ?
In the Kriegsgl. Ersatzheer, August 1944, some have a very similar composition as the
regular Ers.u.Ausb.-Btls, that is : 1 Stamm-, 1 Genesenden-, 1 Marsch-Kp. and 1 or more Ausbildungs-Kp.
(training companies). (See scan for EuA 276 (M) and 278 (M).)

If I understand the book by Rolf Valentin ( Die Krankenbataillone ) correctly, he gives a number
of examples, where the men in these battalions were collected in 3 or even 4 groups/companies,
depending on the degree of impairment caused by their ailment, and their general physical fitness.

The Kdr. of the first EuA-Btl. 278 (M) reports on March, 29th, 1944 (Page 69 f.), that in his battalion
the men are seperated in several A-, B-, and C-type-companies.

The A-type-companies would correspond to a Marschkp., as they contained soldiers that were
almost cured and intended for the formation of a "Magen-Bataillon", which could be transferred to the field-army,
but with restricted tasks, suited for the ailments of its members.

The B-type companies would contain men, who have the potential to be sent to the A-companies,
but still needed more training of both, their physical fitness and their military knowledge.
(Would these be simply designated as Ausbildungs-Kp. (=A) in a Kriegsgliederung ?)

The C-type companies would be closest to a Genesenden-Kp., as it contained men, that where
only capable of very limited tasks. Every 4 weeks, it was controlled, whether they could be transferred to
an A- or B-type company. In case that no real healing could be expected, they were sent back to their former
Ersatz-unit.

To me this sounds somehow different to the standard Gliederung ?
Or is it that simple, that A-type= Marsch-Kp., B-type=Ausb-Kp., C-type=Gen.Kp. ?!

To make the question more precise :
Show those Ersatzheer-Gliederungen exactly what the unit had at that date or are they to be taken
as a more general picture, what was "authorized", while the internal structure might be different ?!

Does anybody have additional data or documents, that could shed some light on this ?
Some numbers for the size of those different companies ?!
That would be really appreciated !


2.) For the Feldheer-units, there are only two large groups :

a) Sicherungs-Battalione (# 1201 (M) - 1220 (M), and 1221 (O) - 1224(O) )
b) Festungs-Infanterie-Btl. (# 1441 - 1443, 1453 - 1456, and 1462, all (M) type).
[1444 might be (O) type, according to Tessin ?!]

=> The Festungs-Btls. (M) were ordered the same KStN as the other Festungs battalions, raised in the
same group (see scan).

=> Sicherungs- and Landesschützen-Bataillone mainly had 4 companies of the same type anyway.

From that, it seems to me, that the (M) and (O) units used the same KStNs as the other units
of the same type, only depending on what task they were given.
The main difference, according to Valentin, was, that they needed a specialized doctor,
as many of the men needed medical treatment regularly, and that all Officers and NCOs should be aware
of the health problems of the men, so that they were not given tasks that would demand to much of them.

Of course, all Magen (M) units would need rations of a special diet food. And for the Ohren (O) units,
with great problems in hearing, it was concluded, that they were not capable for fighting at all,
but mainly for constructions tasks or security duties.

However, the reality, was often very different, and obviously both types of units saw action
under completely other conditions as planned.

-----------------------
I think these types of units are mentioned very often in many reports from mid 1944 onward.
However there are still very few details known.

Is there any literature on these units, other than that book by Valentin ?
Or any other source of material ?

Best regards,

hero.

EuA_276_M_Aug_1944_03.jpg (13.8 KiB) Viewed 5433 times

EuA_278_M_Aug_1944_04.jpg (13.23 KiB) Viewed 5433 times

[MadDog]

As always, Hero, a most thorough review of the material available. I wonder is there is a section in RH37 that covers these specialized units.

Mad Dog