14 Panzer Division, November 1944

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Prit
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14 Panzer Division, November 1944

Post by Prit » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:24 am

Dear all

Martin Unrein commanded this division from October 1943 until February 1945, but I understand that he was away from the division due to illness throughout Sept/Oct/Nov 1944, during which time he was replaced by Oskar Munzel. However, Kurowski refers to Unrein as commanding the division during the 2nd Battle of Courland in November 1944.

From the books I have, it appears that Kurowski is wrong, but can anyone confirm who commanded the division during November?

Prit

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Jerry
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Re: 14 Panzer Division, November 1944

Post by Jerry » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:57 am

Prit,

I have Unrein returning on Nov 25 as per DDD #3.

FWIW, same source has Unrein's first replacement as Werner Mummert 1.9.44 - 4.9.44, then Munzel 5.9.44 - 24.11.44.

Jerry
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Prit
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Re: 14 Panzer Division, November 1944

Post by Prit » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:59 am

Thank you, Jerry. So Unrein returned while the battle was ongoing, and took command again, much like Betzel with 4th Panzer Division a few weeks later in the 3rd Battle of Courland.

Cheers

Prit

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Re: 14 Panzer Division, November 1944

Post by genstab » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:43 am

Hi, Jerry-
Hey, would you please tell me what your reference DDD #3 is? I would have asked you earlier but my password wouldn't work and after begging help from several people Tom Houlihan fixed me up. He said he sent you a PM too requesting you get in touch with me but you can answer on site as other people might want to know also. I'm familiar with Mehner, Bradley, Keilig, BAMA, Tessin, HPA, NARA report numbers, etc. but this is a new one for me. Appreciate it and have a good weekend.

Best,
Bill in Cleveland
with no durn snow yet!
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Genstab

Where liberty dwells, there is my country.

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Jerry
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Re: 14 Panzer Division, November 1944

Post by Jerry » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:05 am

Hello Bill,

DDD # 3 is Die Deutschen Divisionen band 3 (11-16). Another of those Biblio Verlag unfinished series (arn't they all !).


BTW..........Do you actually miss not having snow yet?

Jerry
When you're in command..... command!

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Re: 14 Panzer Division, November 1944

Post by storm39 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:37 am

hi

In the book "Die 14.Panzer Division 1940-1945 by Rolf Grams" he has Munzel as commander from 6th Sept to 30th Nov 1944. Major Grams was Kommandeur of Pz.A.A.40

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Re: 14 Panzer Division, November 1944

Post by genstab » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:56 pm

Thanks, Jerry. I'm not familiar with that series. Out of curisoity, how far are they along with the divisions, and do they mix all ground forces divisions together by the numbers- 1,2,3, etc?

You're sure not kidding about Biblio. I just hope Ilive long enough to get all the volumes of "Die Generale des Heeres 1921-1945".

Sure don't miss not having snow yet. We had maybe two inches around the 2nd but not a thing on the ground now. A most unusual but welcome winter.

Best,
Bill in Cleveland
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Re: 14 Panzer Division, November 1944

Post by Jerry » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:24 am

Bill,

Actually, the full name is Die Deutschen Divisionen 1939-1945. Yes they lump all divisions by number and as far as I can tell they cover every unit that was referred to as "division"; Infanterie, Gebirgs, Panzer, Marine-Inf., Fallschirm-Jäger, SS, Flieger, etc. I have the first four (thru #25) and I believe that is all so far. It was published in 2000 and I'm not holding my breath for #5! JJ Fedorowitz has this description on their website:

Although written in German, the information is presented in a format which allows easy research even for a non-German reading audience. Each division has the following information: activation lineage; assignment history; list of commanders; list of operations officers; organic and attached units/organizations of the division; names of winners of the KC and the GC in the division. Each division has maps which outline the movements for each year of the war in which they were employed along with a detailed movement/activity history for that year.

As with all secondary sources, some of the info is suspect but it is another piece in the puzzle.

Jerry
When you're in command..... command!

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