Barbarossa Order of Battle

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yangtze
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Barbarossa Order of Battle

Post by yangtze » Tue May 24, 2011 11:36 pm

I got hold of a copy of Glantz's Slaughterhouse, hoping this would be a definitive, comprehensive OOB of the entire Eastern Front, 41-45. Unfortunately I am very disappointed to find a large number of glaring inconsistencies with other published OOBs. Notably, but not limited to, a large number of units at corps (Axis) or army (Soviet) level that are billed as arriving in early '44 in Slaughterhouse, but are clearly felt to have been present in June '41 by other, apparently reliable OOBs.

Is there a single comprehensive OOB out there that is considered reliable and up to date with the latest information released from archives? I'm looking for Axis corps/ Soviet army level information from June '41 though arrivals and departures to May '45. So disappointed that the Glantz book appears to be seriously flawed...

Brad Hunter
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Re: Barbarossa Order of Battle

Post by Brad Hunter » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:12 am

The best one online is on Dr. Niehorster's site:

http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany ... 1-oob.html

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Christoph Awender
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Re: Barbarossa Order of Battle

Post by Christoph Awender » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:51 am

Hello,

Well, I think mine isn´t bad as well. :-)
http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/gliederungen/barbarossa.htm

/Christoph

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Re: Barbarossa Order of Battle

Post by Brad Hunter » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:18 am

Christoph Awender wrote:Hello,

Well, I think mine isn´t bad as well. :-)
http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/gliederungen/barbarossa.htm

/Christoph
My apologies - your's is great too....

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genstab
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Re: Barbarossa Order of Battle

Post by genstab » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:03 am

As far as the German lineup on 22 June 1941, the undisputable primary source is the original OKH Gen.St. Op. Abt. III schematische Kriegsgliederung (O/B) for the entire German Army, east and west, reproduced in Mehner's "Die Geheimen Tagesberichte", volume 1, part 1 (volume 1 s in 2 parts). That volume has the schematic O/Bs from June 1940 thru August 1941.
Part 2 goes through December 2942.

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Genstab
Best regards,
Genstab

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Shadow
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Re: Barbarossa Order of Battle

Post by Shadow » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:29 pm

Greetings "yangtze" !! :D
yangtze wrote:I got hold of a copy of Glantz's Slaughterhouse, hoping this would be a definitive, comprehensive OOB of the entire Eastern Front, 41-45. Unfortunately I am very disappointed to find a large number of glaring inconsistencies with other published OOBs. Notably, but not limited to, a large number of units at corps (Axis) or army (Soviet) level that are billed as arriving in early '44 in Slaughterhouse, but are clearly felt to have been present in June '41 by other, apparently reliable OOBs.
Is there a single comprehensive OOB out there that is considered reliable and up to date with the latest information released from archives? I'm looking for Axis corps/ Soviet army level information from June '41 though arrivals and departures to May '45. So disappointed that the Glantz book appears to be seriously flawed...
I haven't had the opportunity to peruse David's "Slaughterhouse" book, so will remain silent on your statement that it is "seriously flawed"! :roll:

I'm sorry to have to let you know :? that (via: internet) there are as many "Orders of Battle" having to do with Operation Barbarossa as there are covering Operations Typhoon, Blau, Uranus, Bagration, etc., etc., etc.! :( :(

I have found though, that the sites mentioned above are probably your best "baby steps" in puttting together OoBs' having to do with both sides on the dreaded "Eastern Front":
Christoph Awender's: http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/
Leo Niehorster's: http://niehorster.orbat.com/
John Mulholland: http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=6469

As well as the information you can obtain via: Wikipedia et.al.:
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=we ... MQFjAA&url
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=we ... EYMHNpawhQ

Trying to put together an Order of Battle for either the Axis or Allied sides during WWII is a truly a daunting task !!

I wish you all the best of luck !!

Best regards: The Shadow.

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Shadow
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Re: Barbarossa Order of Battle

Post by Shadow » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:30 pm

Greetings "yangtze" !! :D
yangtze wrote:I got hold of a copy of Glantz's Slaughterhouse, hoping this would be a definitive, comprehensive OOB of the entire Eastern Front, 41-45. Unfortunately I am very disappointed to find a large number of glaring inconsistencies with other published OOBs. Notably, but not limited to, a large number of units at corps (Axis) or army (Soviet) level that are billed as arriving in early '44 in Slaughterhouse, but are clearly felt to have been present in June '41 by other, apparently reliable OOBs.
Is there a single comprehensive OOB out there that is considered reliable and up to date with the latest information released from archives? I'm looking for Axis corps/ Soviet army level information from June '41 though arrivals and departures to May '45. So disappointed that the Glantz book appears to be seriously flawed...
I haven't had the opportunity to peruse David's "Slaughterhouse" book, so will remain silent on your statement that it is "seriously flawed"! :roll:

I'm sorry to have to let you know :? that (via: internet) there are as many "Orders of Battle" having to do with Operation Barbarossa as there are covering Operations Typhoon, Blau, Uranus, Bagration, etc., etc., etc.! :( :(

I have found though, that the sites mentioned above are probably your best "baby steps" in puttting together OoBs' having to do with both sides on the dreaded "Eastern Front":
Christoph Awender's: http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/
Leo Niehorster's: http://niehorster.orbat.com/
John Mulholland: http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=6469

As well as the information you can obtain via: Wikipedia et.al.:
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=we ... MQFjAA&url
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=we ... EYMHNpawhQ

Trying to put together an Order of Battle for either the Axis or Allied sides during WWII is a truly a daunting task !!

I wish you all the best of luck !!

Best regards: The Shadow.

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genstab
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Re: Barbarossa Order of Battle

Post by genstab » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:45 am

I can't speak fot the Soviet side- as far as I know there has been no comprehensive Red Army O/B series published. But for the German ground forces, the most comprehensive authoritative primary source can be found in "Die Geheimen Tagesberichte der Deutschen Wehrmachtfuehrung im zweiten Weltkrieg 1939-1945" edited by Kurt Mehner. This is a twelve volume set and pricey to purchase. I was lucky and obtained mine used from a German antiquarian bookstore for $850. Besides being a daily OKW war diary for the whole war (it was originally compiled as a part of the KTB-OKW but not included) it has over 150 photocopies of actual multipage OKH Operationen Abeteilung schematic O/Bs for various dates from June 1940 through the end of the war. I orgiinaly borrowed the volumes via interlibrary loan and copied the O/bs before finally purchasing the volumes. If you want to do that, the O/Bs are only in volumes 1 (a two-part volume, from June 1940 thru December 1942), 7 thru 9, (June thru December 1943), 10 (April thru August 1944), 11 (31 August thru December 1944), and 12 (January thru April 1945). The volumes also have the very accurate Lagekarten Atlas maps of the theaters of war for the comparable periods.

Best regards,
Genstab
Best regards,
Genstab

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Shadow
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Re: Barbarossa Order of Battle

Post by Shadow » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:04 pm

genstab wrote:..... the most comprehensive authoritative primary source can be found in "Die Geheimen Tagesberichte der Deutschen Wehrmachtfuehrung im zweiten Weltkrieg 1939-1945" edited by Kurt Mehner. Best regards, Genstab
:D As always, my friend "Genstab" has hit the nail right on the head !!! Mehner is most definitely the place to go for an authoritative source !!! Especially if you can afford the whole set. :up: :up: :wink:
Signed: "The Shadow"

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