Hi,
I was wondering if anyone can provide me information on the availability of StuG.III and Marder III
for SS PanzerGrenadier Division LSSAH, Das Reich, and Totenkopf in the start of January-February, 1943.
What I know is LSSAH and Das Reich arrived at the Eastern front in January, 1943 after their refit in France.
A month later Totenkopf arrived at the front joining with the other two SS Divisions to form the SS PanzerKorps.
I assume the three divisions had their Sturmgeschuetz & Panzerjaeger Battalions at full strength but
I don't know the number of them deployed to battle.
I appreciate any information or recommended books that provides this kind of information.
Thanks in advance,
Apollo
StuG.III & Marder III in SS PzGr.Div in Jan.-Feb.1943
Moderator: Tom Houlihan
-
castro323
- Supporter
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:34 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Re: StuG.III & Marder III in SS PzGr.Div in Jan.-Feb.1943
Hi,
After doing further reasearch on the web about the availability of StuG.III and Marder III
for the SS Divisions mentioned above in the start of January-February, 1943, I found some good information.
I'm also adding the Panzers that deployed to combat in February 1943.
Here's what I got. Correct me if I'm wrong.
SS.PzGr.Div. LSSAH
9 x Tiger, 52 x Pz.IVG, 10 x Pz.IIIL, 12 x Pz.IIF, 22 x StuG.IIIF/8, 27 x Sdkfz.138 Marder III
SS.PzGr.Div. DR
10 x Tiger, 21 x Pz.IVG, 81 x Pz.IIIL, 10 x Pz.IIF, 20 x StuG.IIIF/8, 9 x Sdkfz.139 Marder III
SS.PzGr.Div. T
9 x Tiger, 22 x Pz.IVG, 71 x Pz.IIIL, 10 x Pz.IIIJ, 21 x StuG.IIIF/8, 9 x Sdkfz.132 Marder II
PzGr.Div. GD
9 x Tiger, 42 x Pz.IVG, 10 x Pz.IIIL, 28 x Flm.Pz.IIIM, 32 x StuG.IIIF/8, 9 x Sdkfz.131 Marder II
I appreciate if any corrections.
Once again thanks,
Apollo
After doing further reasearch on the web about the availability of StuG.III and Marder III
for the SS Divisions mentioned above in the start of January-February, 1943, I found some good information.
I'm also adding the Panzers that deployed to combat in February 1943.
Here's what I got. Correct me if I'm wrong.
SS.PzGr.Div. LSSAH
9 x Tiger, 52 x Pz.IVG, 10 x Pz.IIIL, 12 x Pz.IIF, 22 x StuG.IIIF/8, 27 x Sdkfz.138 Marder III
SS.PzGr.Div. DR
10 x Tiger, 21 x Pz.IVG, 81 x Pz.IIIL, 10 x Pz.IIF, 20 x StuG.IIIF/8, 9 x Sdkfz.139 Marder III
SS.PzGr.Div. T
9 x Tiger, 22 x Pz.IVG, 71 x Pz.IIIL, 10 x Pz.IIIJ, 21 x StuG.IIIF/8, 9 x Sdkfz.132 Marder II
PzGr.Div. GD
9 x Tiger, 42 x Pz.IVG, 10 x Pz.IIIL, 28 x Flm.Pz.IIIM, 32 x StuG.IIIF/8, 9 x Sdkfz.131 Marder II
I appreciate if any corrections.
Once again thanks,
Apollo
-
castro323
- Supporter
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:34 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Re: StuG.III & Marder III in SS PzGr.Div in Jan.-Feb.1943
Hi,
Again after more research and reading several books,
I added the order of battle all together but this time for March, 1943 and this is what I got so far.
Of course there may be some mistakes.
März, 1943
HeeresGruppe Süd - GeneralFeldMarschall E. von Manstein
4.Panzer-Armee - GeneralOberst H. Hoth
SS-PanzerKorps - OberGruppenFührer P. Haußer
SS-PanzerGrenadier-Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler - OberGruppenFührer J. Dietrich
---8 x PzVIE Tiger, 45 x Pz.IVG, 10 x Pz.IIIJ, 10 x Pz.IIF (I., II. / SS-Panzer-Regiment.1)
---22 x StuG.IIIF8/G (SS-Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung.1)
---27 x Sdkfz.138 Marder III (SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung.1)
---(SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.1) (SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.2)
SS-PanzerGrenadier-Division Das Reich - OberFührer H.E. Vahl
---9 x Pz.VIE Tiger, 7 x Pz.IVG, 20 x Pz.IIIJ/L, 10 x Pz.IIF (II. / SS-Panzer-Regiment.2)
---20 x StuG.IIIF8/G (SS-Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung.2)
---3 x Sdkfz.131 Marder II, 9 x Sdkfz.139 Marder III (SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung.2)
---(SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment Deutschland) (SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment Der Führer)
SS-PanzerGrenadier-Division Totenkopf - OberGruppenFührer H. Prieß
---7 x Pz.VIE Tiger, 16 x Pz.IVG, 42 x Pz.IIIL/M, 10 x Pz.IIIJ (I., II. / SS-Panzer-Regiment.3)
---21 x StuG.IIIF8/G (SS-Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung.3)
---9 x Sdkfz.131 Marder II (SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung.3)
---(SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.1 Totenkopf) (SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.3 Theodor Eicke)
XXXXVIII.PanzerKorps - General der PanzerTruppe O. von Knobelsdorff
6.Panzer-Division - Oberst W. von Hünersdorff
---10 x Pz.IVG, 6 x Pz.IIIL, 6 x FlPz.IIIM, 2 x Pz.IIIN, 10 x Pz.IIF (I., II. / Panzer-Regiment.11)
---9 x Sdkfz.139 Marder III (Panzerjäger-Abteilung.41)
---(PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.4) (PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.114)
11.Panzer-Division - GeneralLeutnant H. Balck
---7 x Pz.IVG, 29 x Pz.IIIL/M, 7 x Pz.IIIN, 6 x Pz.IIF (I., II., III. / Panzer-Regiment.15)
---6 x Sdkfz.131 Marder II (Panzerjäger-Abteilung.61)
---(PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.110) (PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.111)
106.Infanterie-Division (März.12) - GeneralLeutnant W. Forst
---(Grenadier-Regiment.239) (Grenadier-Regiment.240) (Grenadier-Regiment.241)
Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung.228 (März.17)
---17 x StuG.IIIF8
----------
HeeresGruppe Süd - GeneralFeldMarschall E. von Manstein
Armee-Abteilung Kempf - General der PanzerTruppe W. Kempf
Raus.ArmeeKorps - General der PanzerTruppe E. Raus
Infanterie-Division GroßDeutschland - GeneralLeutnant W. Hörnlein
---8 x Pz.VIE Tiger, 39 x Pz.IVG, 9 x Pz.IIIJ, 6 x FlPz.IIIM (II. / Panzer-Regiment GD)
---21 x StuG.IIIF8/G (Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung GD)
---18 x Sdkfz.132 Marder II (Panzerjäger-Abteilung GD)
---(Grenadier-Regiment GD) (Füsilier-Regiment GD)
167.Infanterie-Division - GeneralLeutnant W. Trierenberg
---(Grenadier-Regiment.315) (Grenadier-Regiment.331) (Grenadier-Regiment.339)
168.Infanterie-Division - GeneralLeutnant W.C. de Beaulieu
---(Grenadier-Regiment.417) (Grenadier-Regiment.429) (Grenadier-Regiment.442)
320.Infanterie-Division - GeneralLeutnant G. Postel
---(Grenadier-Regiment.585) (Grenadier-Regiment.586) (Grenadier-Regiment.587)
---8 x Pz.IIIL, 6 x StuG.IIIF8 (PanzerZug.62)
---12 x StuG.IIIF8 (Sturmgeschütz-Batterie.393)
SS-Schützen-Regiment Thule
Books & sources:
Last Victory in Russia by George M. Nipe Jr.
From The Don to the Dnepr by David M. Glantz
PanzerTruppen 2 by Tom Jentz
Osprey: Panzer Divisions, The Eastern Front 1943-45 by Pier Paolo Battistelli
Tiger in Combat II by Wolfgang Schneider
The History of PanzerRegiment GrossDeutschland by Hans-Joachim Jung
Nuts & Bolts 15: Sdkfz.139 Marder III by Volker Andorfer, Martin Block, & John Nelson
Militaria 209, Tank Power Vol.1: Marder II by Zbigniew Borawski & Janusz Ledwoch
http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/ GrossDeutschland for Combat Mission
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32003 StuG allocations late March
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8318 StuG.Batterie.393
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14605 PzJgr.Abt LSSAH
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31990 PzJgr.Abt GrossDeutschland
I just wanted to share this and of course corrections are welcome.
Apollo
Again after more research and reading several books,
I added the order of battle all together but this time for March, 1943 and this is what I got so far.
Of course there may be some mistakes.
März, 1943
HeeresGruppe Süd - GeneralFeldMarschall E. von Manstein
4.Panzer-Armee - GeneralOberst H. Hoth
SS-PanzerKorps - OberGruppenFührer P. Haußer
SS-PanzerGrenadier-Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler - OberGruppenFührer J. Dietrich
---8 x PzVIE Tiger, 45 x Pz.IVG, 10 x Pz.IIIJ, 10 x Pz.IIF (I., II. / SS-Panzer-Regiment.1)
---22 x StuG.IIIF8/G (SS-Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung.1)
---27 x Sdkfz.138 Marder III (SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung.1)
---(SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.1) (SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.2)
SS-PanzerGrenadier-Division Das Reich - OberFührer H.E. Vahl
---9 x Pz.VIE Tiger, 7 x Pz.IVG, 20 x Pz.IIIJ/L, 10 x Pz.IIF (II. / SS-Panzer-Regiment.2)
---20 x StuG.IIIF8/G (SS-Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung.2)
---3 x Sdkfz.131 Marder II, 9 x Sdkfz.139 Marder III (SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung.2)
---(SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment Deutschland) (SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment Der Führer)
SS-PanzerGrenadier-Division Totenkopf - OberGruppenFührer H. Prieß
---7 x Pz.VIE Tiger, 16 x Pz.IVG, 42 x Pz.IIIL/M, 10 x Pz.IIIJ (I., II. / SS-Panzer-Regiment.3)
---21 x StuG.IIIF8/G (SS-Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung.3)
---9 x Sdkfz.131 Marder II (SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung.3)
---(SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.1 Totenkopf) (SS-PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.3 Theodor Eicke)
XXXXVIII.PanzerKorps - General der PanzerTruppe O. von Knobelsdorff
6.Panzer-Division - Oberst W. von Hünersdorff
---10 x Pz.IVG, 6 x Pz.IIIL, 6 x FlPz.IIIM, 2 x Pz.IIIN, 10 x Pz.IIF (I., II. / Panzer-Regiment.11)
---9 x Sdkfz.139 Marder III (Panzerjäger-Abteilung.41)
---(PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.4) (PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.114)
11.Panzer-Division - GeneralLeutnant H. Balck
---7 x Pz.IVG, 29 x Pz.IIIL/M, 7 x Pz.IIIN, 6 x Pz.IIF (I., II., III. / Panzer-Regiment.15)
---6 x Sdkfz.131 Marder II (Panzerjäger-Abteilung.61)
---(PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.110) (PanzerGrenadier-Regiment.111)
106.Infanterie-Division (März.12) - GeneralLeutnant W. Forst
---(Grenadier-Regiment.239) (Grenadier-Regiment.240) (Grenadier-Regiment.241)
Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung.228 (März.17)
---17 x StuG.IIIF8
----------
HeeresGruppe Süd - GeneralFeldMarschall E. von Manstein
Armee-Abteilung Kempf - General der PanzerTruppe W. Kempf
Raus.ArmeeKorps - General der PanzerTruppe E. Raus
Infanterie-Division GroßDeutschland - GeneralLeutnant W. Hörnlein
---8 x Pz.VIE Tiger, 39 x Pz.IVG, 9 x Pz.IIIJ, 6 x FlPz.IIIM (II. / Panzer-Regiment GD)
---21 x StuG.IIIF8/G (Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung GD)
---18 x Sdkfz.132 Marder II (Panzerjäger-Abteilung GD)
---(Grenadier-Regiment GD) (Füsilier-Regiment GD)
167.Infanterie-Division - GeneralLeutnant W. Trierenberg
---(Grenadier-Regiment.315) (Grenadier-Regiment.331) (Grenadier-Regiment.339)
168.Infanterie-Division - GeneralLeutnant W.C. de Beaulieu
---(Grenadier-Regiment.417) (Grenadier-Regiment.429) (Grenadier-Regiment.442)
320.Infanterie-Division - GeneralLeutnant G. Postel
---(Grenadier-Regiment.585) (Grenadier-Regiment.586) (Grenadier-Regiment.587)
---8 x Pz.IIIL, 6 x StuG.IIIF8 (PanzerZug.62)
---12 x StuG.IIIF8 (Sturmgeschütz-Batterie.393)
SS-Schützen-Regiment Thule
Books & sources:
Last Victory in Russia by George M. Nipe Jr.
From The Don to the Dnepr by David M. Glantz
PanzerTruppen 2 by Tom Jentz
Osprey: Panzer Divisions, The Eastern Front 1943-45 by Pier Paolo Battistelli
Tiger in Combat II by Wolfgang Schneider
The History of PanzerRegiment GrossDeutschland by Hans-Joachim Jung
Nuts & Bolts 15: Sdkfz.139 Marder III by Volker Andorfer, Martin Block, & John Nelson
Militaria 209, Tank Power Vol.1: Marder II by Zbigniew Borawski & Janusz Ledwoch
http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/ GrossDeutschland for Combat Mission
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32003 StuG allocations late March
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8318 StuG.Batterie.393
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14605 PzJgr.Abt LSSAH
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31990 PzJgr.Abt GrossDeutschland
I just wanted to share this and of course corrections are welcome.
Apollo
-
John Hilly
- Supporter
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 1:48 am
- Location: Tampere, Finland, Europe
Re: StuG.III & Marder III in SS PzGr.Div in Jan.-Feb.1943
Thanks for your effort. A question though:
10 x Pz.IIIJ. Never heard of III J (i know L, M and N), but J?
With best
Juha-Pekka
castro323 wrote:SS-PanzerGrenadier-Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler - OberGruppenFührer J. Dietrich
---8 x PzVIE Tiger, 45 x Pz.IVG, 10 x Pz.IIIJ, 10 x Pz.IIF (I., II. / SS-Panzer-Regiment.1)
10 x Pz.IIIJ. Never heard of III J (i know L, M and N), but J?
With best
Juha-Pekka
“Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch !!“
-
castro323
- Supporter
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:34 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Re: StuG.III & Marder III in SS PzGr.Div in Jan.-Feb.1943
Hi John,
According to Tigers in Combat II by Wolfgang Schneider,
The early Tiger company (the three SS-PzGr.Rgt and Inf.Div. GD only) were equipped
10-15 Panzer III Ausf.J (5cm short or long?).
Also in Last Victory in Russia by George Nipe Jr., describes 10 Panzer III in LSSAH were available in March, 1943.
Perhaps the 10 Panzer IIIJ in LSSAH were the support tanks for the Tiger company.
Apollo
According to Tigers in Combat II by Wolfgang Schneider,
The early Tiger company (the three SS-PzGr.Rgt and Inf.Div. GD only) were equipped
10-15 Panzer III Ausf.J (5cm short or long?).
Also in Last Victory in Russia by George Nipe Jr., describes 10 Panzer III in LSSAH were available in March, 1943.
Perhaps the 10 Panzer IIIJ in LSSAH were the support tanks for the Tiger company.
Apollo
-
John Hilly
- Supporter
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 1:48 am
- Location: Tampere, Finland, Europe
Re: StuG.III & Marder III in SS PzGr.Div in Jan.-Feb.1943
Don't forget that also schwere Pz.Abteilung 501, 502 and 503 got their first Tigers with Pz.IIIs - I thought were Ausf.L. Soon they were replaced with Pz.III Ausf.N, with 7,5 cm (short ) guns.castro323 wrote:The early Tiger company (the three SS-PzGr.Rgt and Inf.Div. GD only) were equipped
10-15 Panzer III Ausf.J (5cm short or long?).
With best
Juha-Pekka
“Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch !!“
-
castro323
- Supporter
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:34 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Re: StuG.III & Marder III in SS PzGr.Div in Jan.-Feb.1943
Actually the 501 were equipped with 8 x Panzer.III J and 8 x Panzer.III N in November 1942.
502 with 9 x Panzer.III L in August 1942 and then 9 x Panzer.III N in September 1942.
503 with 31 x Panzer.III N in December 1942.
Sources from Tigers in Combat I by Wolfgang Schneider.
Apollo
502 with 9 x Panzer.III L in August 1942 and then 9 x Panzer.III N in September 1942.
503 with 31 x Panzer.III N in December 1942.
Sources from Tigers in Combat I by Wolfgang Schneider.
Apollo
-
castro323
- Supporter
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:34 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Re: SS PzGr.Div & Inf.Div GD in March 1943
Adding more corrections.
---6 x x Sdkfz.132 Marder II (Panzerjäger-Abteilung GD)
---6 x Sdkfz.132 Marder II (IV. / Grenadier-Regiment GD)
---6 x Sdkfz.132 Marder II (IV. / Füsilier-Regiment GD)
I wish I knew there actual strength for March 1943.
Most likely the division did not have their full strength of 18 x Sdkfz.132.
By March 1943, the Panzerjäger units of GroßDeutschland may have been less than 50% of strength?
According to Panzer Tracts 7-2, the Sdkfz.132 were lost in large numbers in 1942 and early 1943.
GroßDeutschland Division had one Sdkfz.132 operational before the start of Operation Zitadelle.
If anyone knows anything about the availability in March, please share any information.
Best regards,
Apollo
Suppose to be (I., II. / SS-Panzer-Regiment.2)castro323 wrote:SS-PanzerGrenadier-Division Das Reich - OberFührer H.E. Vahl
---9 x Pz.VIE Tiger, 7 x Pz.IVG, 20 x Pz.IIIJ/L, 10 x Pz.IIF (II. / SS-Panzer-Regiment.2)
I made a mistake on this one. Suppose to be...castro323 wrote:Infanterie-Division GroßDeutschland - GeneralLeutnant W. Hörnlein
---8 x Pz.VIE Tiger, 39 x Pz.IVG, 9 x Pz.IIIJ, 6 x FlPz.IIIM (II. / Panzer-Regiment GD)
---21 x StuG.IIIF8/G (Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung GD)
---18 x Sdkfz.132 Marder II (Panzerjäger-Abteilung GD)
---(Grenadier-Regiment GD) (Füsilier-Regiment GD)
---6 x x Sdkfz.132 Marder II (Panzerjäger-Abteilung GD)
---6 x Sdkfz.132 Marder II (IV. / Grenadier-Regiment GD)
---6 x Sdkfz.132 Marder II (IV. / Füsilier-Regiment GD)
I wish I knew there actual strength for March 1943.
Most likely the division did not have their full strength of 18 x Sdkfz.132.
By March 1943, the Panzerjäger units of GroßDeutschland may have been less than 50% of strength?
According to Panzer Tracts 7-2, the Sdkfz.132 were lost in large numbers in 1942 and early 1943.
GroßDeutschland Division had one Sdkfz.132 operational before the start of Operation Zitadelle.
If anyone knows anything about the availability in March, please share any information.
Best regards,
Apollo