fallschirm-flak regiment.

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hesse
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fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by hesse »

I had a relative who was in the Waffen ss, with the information i have i know was that he was captured at Leige i September 1944 i am trying to find out which ss unit he belonged to all i have is.

Fallschirm-flak- Regiment 11. auch 3 Abteilung Kampfgruppe Hesse.
MadDog
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Re: fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by MadDog »

Liege was captured in early September..maybe the 9th ? The defense was composed of elements of 1030 security btl. and 319th FKLK Pz.Kp. (this is from memory, and is covered by the LXXXI records or Timm Hasslers book on Pz.Brig.105). I dont remember any mention of an SS unit there, although SS units were in the general area. Th specific unit you mention is anFJ unit, not SS, and I dont remember a mention of the unit there, either. Are you sure about the uint ?

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hesse
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Re: fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by hesse »

The information i received from the Deutsche Dienstelle on the papers it reads,
Fallschrim-flak-regiment11, auch 3 Abteilung Kampfgruppe Hesse.
Thanks for your help
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Re: fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by MadDog »

I cant find any records of KG Hesse in my index, although I am re-reviewing LXXXI corps records at this time.

The 11 FJ Flak Rgt. is mentioned in the following records:


T311 R029 (Heeresgroup D)

Sept 4 (7036254)


T313 R1571 (7th Army) transport details

Dec 4 (1472) ("FJ Flak Abt.11")


RH20-1, /379 (1st Army)

Aug 20 (1)

Aug 25 (4)

Aug 25 (5)

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hesse
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Re: fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by hesse »

The Deutsche Dienstelle gave the information about Kampfgruppe Hesse, and to find further information need to contact the Waffen SS. At BundesarchivR2

Finckensteinalle63
12205 Berlin

I have sent two letters and received no replies, and you say this not a Waffen ss unit?
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Re: fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by MadDog »

Fallschrim-flak-regiment11 is not an SS unit, although I do not know is KG Hesse was or not. There were certainly SS units in the area at that time, but I have not encountered the name Hesses for period records.

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Richard Schoutissen
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Re: fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by Richard Schoutissen »

I noticed in the VBL of the Fallschirm-Flak-Regiment 11 - III Abteilung that they had about 60 soldiers MIA.

Via 'Google" I came across the next information:

Kampfgruppe Hesse au 25 août

« Kampfgruppe St Cloud »

Chef d’état-major, Major Schmidt – Kuenitz

I.Sicher Regiment 66 Major Heissig

III Alarm Bataillon Paris 3

Eléments Fallschirmjäger : Major Biersack

Eléments Fall. Flak 11


Source: http://www.vexinhistoirevivante.com/unites.html#anchor6
hesse
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Re: fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by hesse »

Thank you very much for the information, i now know more information about my relative i suppose the retreat from Paris puts him in the vicinity of Leige were he was captured.
hesse
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TRUPPENTEIL. 5./GREN.RGT.1

Post by hesse »

My uncle served in this unit he was killed in 1943 at Kirow near Leningrad anybody know what division this unit was from?
hero.
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Re: fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by hero. »

Hello hesse !

To answer your last question first :
Your uncle should have been in 5. Kompanie / Grenadier-Regiment 1 der 1. Infanterie-Division.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... er/GR1.htm
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... en/1ID.htm

This unit was deployed in the vicinity of Leningrad throughout 1943.

Best regards,

hero.
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Re: fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by hero. »

Hello hesse, MadDog, Richard !

According to Kampfgruppe Hesse, there is a document in the Foreign Military Studies, B-611, by Oberst Kurt Hesse.
He was the commanding officer (Feldkommandant) of FK 758, located at St.Cloud, in the west of Paris,
near Bois-de-Boulogne :
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... K758-R.htm

According to FMS B-611, Oberst Hesse on August, 26th, took the lead of a regimental sized
battlegroup, holding a frontline north of Paris, roughly along the line Herblay - Argenteuil - Le Bourget.
This formation consisted of :
- Staff of former Sich.Rgt. 66,
-- Ia : Major Schmidt-Kuenitz
-- some signal troops and a small Feldgendarmerie-Trupp
- 1 Batl. of Sicherungs-Rgt. 66 (Kdr. Hauptmann Heissig ?, [Oberst Hesse is unsure here])
- 1 Batl. formed from stragglers (among them 1 company Fallschirmjäger (paratroopers) under a Major Biersack)
- another Batl. of stragglers, [maybe this refers to Alarm-Btl. Paris III ?]
- engineer-company of Sicherungs-Rgt. 66
- 5 light Flak-Batteries (some of them with only 2-3 guns)
- one 8,8 cm Flak-Battery

This fits nicely with the information from the link provided by Richard, so it seems this source is reliable.
From the informations gathered by the other forum members and by the Dt. Dienststelle, I would think it is
rather plausible, that it is this battlegroup your relative was in, as a member of one of those Flak-Batteries.

There was another regimental-sized battlegroup (KGr. Seidel ?!), and those two formed Kampfgruppe von Aulock,
under the command of Gen.Maj. Hubertus von Aulock.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubertus_von_Aulock

This Kampfgruppe von Aulock at that time should have been subordinated to the 47. Infantry Division.
There is a report of the commander of 47. ID, Gen.Maj. Carl Wahle, on axishistory-forum :
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 2&p=623654

This report should give you a very good impression on the situation, the German troops faced at that time.
From that report, Div. or Kampfgruppe von Aulock was under command of 47th Inf.Div. until August, 31., 1944.

- Kampfgruppe von Aulock should have been under the command of LVIII. Pz.Korps from 26th of August onward.
But on the 4th of September it was subordinated to II. SS-Pz.Korps by order of 5th Pz.Armee.
(KTB 5.Pz.Armee, Anlage Nr. 76, dated 4.9.1944).
Maybe this is what the document from the Dt.Dienststelle refers to ?

- Lüttich should have been captured around September, 8th, 1944.


- Some conclusions and still open points :
1.) Very probably, your relative was employed with Fallschirm-Flak-Rgt. 11 in the area of Paris in mid 1944 and
made a major part of the retreat from Paris to the area of Lüttich with Kampfgruppe von Aulock. Reading the report
from Gen.Maj. Wahle, you will notice that the German army was in a state of serious disarray at that time.
So, without further informations, it is not possible to judge, whether your relative was still with this formation
when he was captured or at some time split off, as so many others.

2.) Your relative was not in the Waffen-SS but a member of a Luftwaffen-unit, as Mad Dog already mentioned.

3.) The big open question to me is :
a) What kind of unit was this Fallschirm-Flak-Rgt. 11 and what is its origin ?!
The reason I'm asking this :
According to Tessin and Lexikon Fallschirm-Flak-Rgt. 11 should be a corps-echelon unit of the I. Fallschirm-Korps
(as Fallschirm-Flak-Rgt. 12 would be expected for the II. Fallschirm-Korps).
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... akRgt1.htm
http://www.ww2.dk/ground/fallschirm/fsflakrgt1.htm

However : I. Fs.Korps was employed in Italy throughout WW II !
Perhaps someone could explain the background of this all ?!


Therefore, to learn more on the unit of your relative and to to help all curious members of this forum :
@hesse : It would be very nice, if you could manage to put up some scan of the document you received from
Dt. Dienststelle, (of course without any personal data you don't want to be revealed).
Alternatively, you could write up some of the information, literally.

>>The information i received from the Deutsche Dienstelle on the papers it reads,
Fallschrim-flak-regiment11, auch 3 Abteilung Kampfgruppe Hesse. <<

There should be at least some more details :
Former units he has been in, more explanations (lt. Meldung vom ...) etc.
That could help a lot !

Thanks in advance :wink: and
best regards

hero.
MadDog
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Re: fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by MadDog »

THats some nice detective work, hero. I am embarrassed I didnt think to check the FMS docs.

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hesse
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Re: fallschirm-flak regiment.

Post by hesse »

Thanks for all the information it is all very interesting.
The information i received from the Deutsche dienstelle was this.

Laut meldung vom 12.04.1942 -162-2. battr.1 flak a. 71[ 2batterieleichte flak abteilung 71

laut meldung vom 10.09.1944 fallschirm- flak- regiment11 auch3 . abteilung kampgruppe Hesse.

Kreigsgefangenschaft.
10.09.1944 in Luttich in Westallierte Gefangenschaft geraten.
31.12.1948.

This does look as though he was in a flak regiment i find this all very interesting that is all the Deutsche Dienstelle could tell me, and signed off with this.

Weitere aufzeichnungen leigen nicht vor.
Wegen der eventuellen zugehorigkeit zur Waffen ss emfehle ich ihnen eine anfrage an das.

That is why i presumed he was in the SS.

many thanks
Hesse
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