I play 4 Panzer Div. in Flames of War. I've come across some info showing Jagdpanthers in said Div. and have added same. Any real proof of this being so? Also would werfers or panzer werfers have supported this Div. If so, any idea which units?
Thanks in advance.
William
4 Panzer and support
Moderator: Tom Houlihan
-
afrika.90light
- Supporter
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:43 am
- Location: Claymont De.USA
- Contact:
-
Commissar D, the Evil
- Moderator
- Posts: 4823
- Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:22 pm
- Location: New Jersey
Re: 4 Panzer and support
Yes Wiliam, 4th Panzer's 35th Pz. Regt. received 8 Jagdpanthers in January of 1945, when the Division reached Prussia after being shipped from Courland. Hermann Bix of the 4th Panzer received the Knight's Cross for destroying 16 (I believe) T-34s in a lone Jagdpanther in one encounter.
Bestesn,
~Commissar D, the EviL
Bestesn,
~Commissar D, the EviL
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....
Re: 4 Panzer and support
Indeed he did, at the southern approaches to Preussisch Stargard. The incident forms part of my (hopefully soon) forthcoming book, Prussian Twilight. If people are interested, I will be happy to post a translation of Bix's personal account of the battle.
Prit
Prit
Re: 4 Panzer and support
Yes Prit please do, and congratulations on your forthcoming book!Prit wrote: If people are interested, I will be happy to post a translation of Bix's personal account of the battle.Prit
Jerry
When you're in command..... command!
Re: 4 Panzer and support
Here you are, then!
This is the account by Bix, from Hans Schäufler's outstanding book Panzer an der Weichsel. The translation, and therefore any mistakes, are my own.
Prit
We were damned cross, that instead of our promised and familiar Panthers, we now had to take possession of ‘Jagdpanthers,’ which in all the confusion had not reached their intended assault gun battalion.
Nevertheless, we had to look at the details of the equipment. The hulls did not have a swivelling turret; one had to aim the whole vehicle roughly at the target, and then one had a little leeway for accurate aiming. But on the other hand, the poorly constructed steel colossus had at its disposal an 88mm gun of enormous penetrating power as main armament, a whopping range, and good general protection. So we quickly forgot our unfamiliarity with the Jagdpanther and made strenuous efforts to learn about its benefits. We had very little time to get to grips with them properly.
It was the end of February 1945. With three such Jagdpanthers, I was stationed south of Preussisch Stargard, protecting the grenadiers’ positions and providing security for the construction of a new defence line. Everyone had pulled back, and only snowflakes remained on the dark mounds of earth – the abandoned German field positions. I was with my Jagdpanther in a small settlement behind a big muck-heap, so that I could barely look over it with either my eyes or the gun. The flat upper structure of our tanks only protruded slightly above the cover of the muck-heap.
Behind me was Oberfeldwebel Dehm in another Jagdpanther. The two of us didn’t have much ammunition. I had only one load of shells. I ordered the gun loaded. As the mist slowly lifted, two Soviet tanks cautiously appeared on the heights in front of us and edged slowly closer. When they were 1200 metres away, I was able to determine that they were neither T-34s nor KV-1s, but American-built tanks. I knew from experience that they would be easy to crack at this range. We opened fire together – and for a while, Ivan didn’t dare put his nose out again.
The village was held by a group of tankers, crews who had lost their vehicles. I was safe from being surprised from right or left. From the tank, you had a very limited field of vision – and in any event, you can’t keep your eyes on everything all the time.
Roughly half an hour after the two shots I heard the sound of a tank about 1000 metres to the right and soon saw two Soviet tanks, which were heading for our village. At this range, my 88mm cannon couldn’t miss. In short order, these tanks were burning too.
It was clear to us that the Soviets were looking for a weak point through which they could thrust. It was therefore important to remain watchful along the entire front, and I was alone in this area. The two other Jagdpanthers moved away with my agreement, as they had already run out of ammunition. My gunner told me that we had 5 HE and 20 AP rounds.
My company commander, Leutnant Tautorus, was stationed somewhere with his Panther. I reported to him by radio about my position and shortage of ammunition, and received the order to hold off the Soviets as long as possible, as the infantry hadn’t finished preparing their positions.
In the meantime, the tank’s close protection had to withdraw, to keep in contact with other units. As a result, I no longer had a clear idea what was happening to my right and left. The Soviets could therefore have marched in, formed up in three ranks, and nobody would have seen them coming.
I carefully studied the slope before me, and saw that the Soviets had positioned two anti-tank guns there without hindrance. Were they trying to collar me? I loaded an HE shell, aimed the gun, and – bang! We watched chunks of wood and clumps of stuff fly into the air. The fellows had tricked us and set up a couple of mock-ups, in order to draw our fire, and we idiots had promptly done what they wanted. I didn’t fall for the joke again. I decided to save my precious shells.
We were as quiet as a mouse, and rolled our tank back just a little so that it couldn’t be seen from the front. When I stuck my head out of the hatch, I could still look out across the cover.
I could hardly believe my eyes: I could see a long column of armour coming directly towards me, the leading tank about 1200 metres away, with supply vehicles close behind the tanks.
As a precaution, I had already determined the range to fixed landmarks before me. I therefore knew that I could open fire on the leading tank with an AP round when it had passed the 800-metre point.
I don’t know why, but my excellent gunner missed the tank with his first shot, and hit a huge tree next to the road. The trunk split in the middle, and the crown and branches fell onto the leading tank. Suddenly unable to see where he was going, he slipped and tumbled into the ditch by the road, and was left unable to move.
The following tanks drove up and continued, but they didn’t see me. They all turned their turrets to the right and opened fire on the dark mounds of the abandoned infantry positions.
Now was our chance, and I had the sides of their turrets straight in my line of fire. Still, we had to aim carefully, as we had so few shells. If there was only one enemy tank left, and we were out of ammunition, things would go badly for us.
So, I opened fire on a tank in the middle of the column, and it burst into flames with the first shot. The next one came up. Bang, it too was burning. After that, we fired easily at the row, which stood before us like a shooting gallery.
In ten minutes, we shot up 11 Soviet tanks in the column. The rest in their panic tried to turn into the ditch, where they were concealed by the flames and smoke of the row of burning tanks.
I gave the order to open fire on the trucks. But the gunner reported that we had only two shells left. The machine-gun was also completely out of ammunition. It was now high time for us to disappear from the scene, as the best tank is useless without ammunition.
We slowly pulled back. But the ground was soft, a mire. It was not possible to turn here. All we could do was carefully pull back metre after metre, to escape from the sight of the column, which was now slowly coming back to life.
The heavy engine of our tank roared loudly as it struggled on. But the tracks slipped whenever the driver put his foot down even a little bit. Then suddenly, I gave a loud shriek that cut through all other conversation: a Soviet tank was standing in full view 300 metres to the right of us in the village. Unnoticed by us, he had wandered through the terrain, slipped through the houses, and apparently assumed that there were no German tanks here.
At the same time that we saw him, he noticed us, and his turret slowly swung in our direction. Unfortunately, we couldn’t do the same, as our otherwise excellent Jagdpanther, like all assault guns, had no rotating turret.
- And then the Soviet tank stopped. With complete certainty, I knew that it had stopped to fire. ‘Back and to the left! Halt! Turn right on the spot!’ – but our hull was stuck in the dirt and responded slowly, much too slowly. I was really worried, and my concern transmitted itself to the crew. The loader, who could smell a rat, reminded me, ‘Only two shells left!’ My heart began to race. It seemed odd to me. We simply couldn’t turn into a firing position. Only the driver knew exactly what was going on, as he received my commands which tried to bring the tank into a firing position.
I didn’t want to, but I had to see that despite our efforts, the hunk of steel was only moving by centimetres in the mud bath. And the Soviet tank’s gun was pointed precisely at us – was I seeing right, or was I kidding myself? He was aiming a little too high!
Then, a shudder ran through my body. I was suddenly in control again. I watched every movement of the Russian carefully. It took me no little time. And then my opponent made a critical error. The driver wanted, and thought he had enough time, to move his tank forward a little, because his rear was too low. But he dug himself in deeper and deeper at the back, because the ground over there was also boggy.
Only seconds before, I had been saying to myself, ‘Hermann, make your peace with heaven. Soon everything will be over!’ – But now, I saw another chance for us. Keep calm, I told myself. Slowly, our tank turned. Then, we were in firing position. The gun was clear and at the right elevation. The gunner realigned carefully. Our opponent sank deeper and deeper at the rear and I watched as he strove in vain with all his efforts to bring his gun lower.
Suddenly, the turret hatch burst open. Two hands emerged and waved. The crew wanted to surrender - or did they want to mislead us? We were used to a lot of things. No, I wasn’t going to take any risks! We therefore fired our penultimate shell into the drive sprocket, as a safeguard for all eventualities. The crew leaped out – one, two, three, four men. All right and proper. Hooray! Then we fired our last round straight at the Soviet tank, and it burst into flames - our sixteenth of the morning.
And we pulled back to the rear. A tank without ammunition wasn’t worth a thing in the sixth year of the war.
Yes, you have to have luck in war - and eyes in your head - and a Jagdpanther - and SUCH a good crew!
This is the account by Bix, from Hans Schäufler's outstanding book Panzer an der Weichsel. The translation, and therefore any mistakes, are my own.
Prit
We were damned cross, that instead of our promised and familiar Panthers, we now had to take possession of ‘Jagdpanthers,’ which in all the confusion had not reached their intended assault gun battalion.
Nevertheless, we had to look at the details of the equipment. The hulls did not have a swivelling turret; one had to aim the whole vehicle roughly at the target, and then one had a little leeway for accurate aiming. But on the other hand, the poorly constructed steel colossus had at its disposal an 88mm gun of enormous penetrating power as main armament, a whopping range, and good general protection. So we quickly forgot our unfamiliarity with the Jagdpanther and made strenuous efforts to learn about its benefits. We had very little time to get to grips with them properly.
It was the end of February 1945. With three such Jagdpanthers, I was stationed south of Preussisch Stargard, protecting the grenadiers’ positions and providing security for the construction of a new defence line. Everyone had pulled back, and only snowflakes remained on the dark mounds of earth – the abandoned German field positions. I was with my Jagdpanther in a small settlement behind a big muck-heap, so that I could barely look over it with either my eyes or the gun. The flat upper structure of our tanks only protruded slightly above the cover of the muck-heap.
Behind me was Oberfeldwebel Dehm in another Jagdpanther. The two of us didn’t have much ammunition. I had only one load of shells. I ordered the gun loaded. As the mist slowly lifted, two Soviet tanks cautiously appeared on the heights in front of us and edged slowly closer. When they were 1200 metres away, I was able to determine that they were neither T-34s nor KV-1s, but American-built tanks. I knew from experience that they would be easy to crack at this range. We opened fire together – and for a while, Ivan didn’t dare put his nose out again.
The village was held by a group of tankers, crews who had lost their vehicles. I was safe from being surprised from right or left. From the tank, you had a very limited field of vision – and in any event, you can’t keep your eyes on everything all the time.
Roughly half an hour after the two shots I heard the sound of a tank about 1000 metres to the right and soon saw two Soviet tanks, which were heading for our village. At this range, my 88mm cannon couldn’t miss. In short order, these tanks were burning too.
It was clear to us that the Soviets were looking for a weak point through which they could thrust. It was therefore important to remain watchful along the entire front, and I was alone in this area. The two other Jagdpanthers moved away with my agreement, as they had already run out of ammunition. My gunner told me that we had 5 HE and 20 AP rounds.
My company commander, Leutnant Tautorus, was stationed somewhere with his Panther. I reported to him by radio about my position and shortage of ammunition, and received the order to hold off the Soviets as long as possible, as the infantry hadn’t finished preparing their positions.
In the meantime, the tank’s close protection had to withdraw, to keep in contact with other units. As a result, I no longer had a clear idea what was happening to my right and left. The Soviets could therefore have marched in, formed up in three ranks, and nobody would have seen them coming.
I carefully studied the slope before me, and saw that the Soviets had positioned two anti-tank guns there without hindrance. Were they trying to collar me? I loaded an HE shell, aimed the gun, and – bang! We watched chunks of wood and clumps of stuff fly into the air. The fellows had tricked us and set up a couple of mock-ups, in order to draw our fire, and we idiots had promptly done what they wanted. I didn’t fall for the joke again. I decided to save my precious shells.
We were as quiet as a mouse, and rolled our tank back just a little so that it couldn’t be seen from the front. When I stuck my head out of the hatch, I could still look out across the cover.
I could hardly believe my eyes: I could see a long column of armour coming directly towards me, the leading tank about 1200 metres away, with supply vehicles close behind the tanks.
As a precaution, I had already determined the range to fixed landmarks before me. I therefore knew that I could open fire on the leading tank with an AP round when it had passed the 800-metre point.
I don’t know why, but my excellent gunner missed the tank with his first shot, and hit a huge tree next to the road. The trunk split in the middle, and the crown and branches fell onto the leading tank. Suddenly unable to see where he was going, he slipped and tumbled into the ditch by the road, and was left unable to move.
The following tanks drove up and continued, but they didn’t see me. They all turned their turrets to the right and opened fire on the dark mounds of the abandoned infantry positions.
Now was our chance, and I had the sides of their turrets straight in my line of fire. Still, we had to aim carefully, as we had so few shells. If there was only one enemy tank left, and we were out of ammunition, things would go badly for us.
So, I opened fire on a tank in the middle of the column, and it burst into flames with the first shot. The next one came up. Bang, it too was burning. After that, we fired easily at the row, which stood before us like a shooting gallery.
In ten minutes, we shot up 11 Soviet tanks in the column. The rest in their panic tried to turn into the ditch, where they were concealed by the flames and smoke of the row of burning tanks.
I gave the order to open fire on the trucks. But the gunner reported that we had only two shells left. The machine-gun was also completely out of ammunition. It was now high time for us to disappear from the scene, as the best tank is useless without ammunition.
We slowly pulled back. But the ground was soft, a mire. It was not possible to turn here. All we could do was carefully pull back metre after metre, to escape from the sight of the column, which was now slowly coming back to life.
The heavy engine of our tank roared loudly as it struggled on. But the tracks slipped whenever the driver put his foot down even a little bit. Then suddenly, I gave a loud shriek that cut through all other conversation: a Soviet tank was standing in full view 300 metres to the right of us in the village. Unnoticed by us, he had wandered through the terrain, slipped through the houses, and apparently assumed that there were no German tanks here.
At the same time that we saw him, he noticed us, and his turret slowly swung in our direction. Unfortunately, we couldn’t do the same, as our otherwise excellent Jagdpanther, like all assault guns, had no rotating turret.
- And then the Soviet tank stopped. With complete certainty, I knew that it had stopped to fire. ‘Back and to the left! Halt! Turn right on the spot!’ – but our hull was stuck in the dirt and responded slowly, much too slowly. I was really worried, and my concern transmitted itself to the crew. The loader, who could smell a rat, reminded me, ‘Only two shells left!’ My heart began to race. It seemed odd to me. We simply couldn’t turn into a firing position. Only the driver knew exactly what was going on, as he received my commands which tried to bring the tank into a firing position.
I didn’t want to, but I had to see that despite our efforts, the hunk of steel was only moving by centimetres in the mud bath. And the Soviet tank’s gun was pointed precisely at us – was I seeing right, or was I kidding myself? He was aiming a little too high!
Then, a shudder ran through my body. I was suddenly in control again. I watched every movement of the Russian carefully. It took me no little time. And then my opponent made a critical error. The driver wanted, and thought he had enough time, to move his tank forward a little, because his rear was too low. But he dug himself in deeper and deeper at the back, because the ground over there was also boggy.
Only seconds before, I had been saying to myself, ‘Hermann, make your peace with heaven. Soon everything will be over!’ – But now, I saw another chance for us. Keep calm, I told myself. Slowly, our tank turned. Then, we were in firing position. The gun was clear and at the right elevation. The gunner realigned carefully. Our opponent sank deeper and deeper at the rear and I watched as he strove in vain with all his efforts to bring his gun lower.
Suddenly, the turret hatch burst open. Two hands emerged and waved. The crew wanted to surrender - or did they want to mislead us? We were used to a lot of things. No, I wasn’t going to take any risks! We therefore fired our penultimate shell into the drive sprocket, as a safeguard for all eventualities. The crew leaped out – one, two, three, four men. All right and proper. Hooray! Then we fired our last round straight at the Soviet tank, and it burst into flames - our sixteenth of the morning.
And we pulled back to the rear. A tank without ammunition wasn’t worth a thing in the sixth year of the war.
Yes, you have to have luck in war - and eyes in your head - and a Jagdpanther - and SUCH a good crew!
-
Martin Block
- Enthusiast
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:09 am
Re: 4 Panzer and support
Thank you for the translation Prit!
Just one small remark to the opening words of Hermann Bix if I may: The 8 Jagdpanthers did not reach the 4. Pz.Div. by coincidence or due to any confusion as he stated. They were never intended for an assault gun battalion or any other unit but were directly allocated to the 4. Pz.Div. by the Gen.Insp.d.Pz.Tr. on 9.2.1945, shipped from an ordnance depot on 14.2.1945 and reported picked up on 18.2.1945.
Martin Block
Just one small remark to the opening words of Hermann Bix if I may: The 8 Jagdpanthers did not reach the 4. Pz.Div. by coincidence or due to any confusion as he stated. They were never intended for an assault gun battalion or any other unit but were directly allocated to the 4. Pz.Div. by the Gen.Insp.d.Pz.Tr. on 9.2.1945, shipped from an ordnance depot on 14.2.1945 and reported picked up on 18.2.1945.
Martin Block
-
Tom Houlihan
- Patron
- Posts: 4301
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 12:05 pm
- Location: MI, USA
- Contact:
Re: 4 Panzer and support
Geez, talk about sweating bullets!
Thanks for that bit, Prit!
Thanks for that bit, Prit!
Re: 4 Panzer and support
It's a wonderful piece, written in exactly the manner you would expect from a grizzled NCO who had led his division to the gates of Moscow, and had fought every inch of the way across the long retreat on the Ostfront.
Two things stand out.
Firstly, like all tankers, he has an interesting attitude to the ability of tanks to move quietly - 'we were as quiet as a mouse' or rather, as quiet as you can be in such a huge vehicle!
Secondly, the fate of the last Soviet tank crew seems remarkably chivalrous, given the dateline of the action and its location. I suspect, as my good friend DCC has pointed out to me in the past, that the true outcome for the tank crew was a little more terminal.
Prit
Two things stand out.
Firstly, like all tankers, he has an interesting attitude to the ability of tanks to move quietly - 'we were as quiet as a mouse' or rather, as quiet as you can be in such a huge vehicle!
Secondly, the fate of the last Soviet tank crew seems remarkably chivalrous, given the dateline of the action and its location. I suspect, as my good friend DCC has pointed out to me in the past, that the true outcome for the tank crew was a little more terminal.
Prit
-
afrika.90light
- Supporter
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:43 am
- Location: Claymont De.USA
- Contact:
Re: 4 Panzer and support
Good Day All,
Firstly, Thank you Commissar for your info. I like to play my army as accurate as possible. I originally bought these models because a friend plays British Crocs, and these beasts are tough in this game but not to jagdpanthers. And they looked really great when finished. Any way thanks much.
Now as for your part Prit, that was so great that I think I'd like to add to my models a little more detail if possible. I think I'd like to finish them in honor of Hermann Bix. Do we by chance know the number on his tank or dare I hope is there any photos of his tank( I know to much to hope for) or any detail on his tank I could add to mine. What was his rank at this time? Since I play 2 tanks, info on his fellow tankers might help to finish out the 2nd tank. I know this info may be out of the question but I have to try.
Again Thanks for that great piece
Happy Trails to all.
William
Firstly, Thank you Commissar for your info. I like to play my army as accurate as possible. I originally bought these models because a friend plays British Crocs, and these beasts are tough in this game but not to jagdpanthers. And they looked really great when finished. Any way thanks much.
Now as for your part Prit, that was so great that I think I'd like to add to my models a little more detail if possible. I think I'd like to finish them in honor of Hermann Bix. Do we by chance know the number on his tank or dare I hope is there any photos of his tank( I know to much to hope for) or any detail on his tank I could add to mine. What was his rank at this time? Since I play 2 tanks, info on his fellow tankers might help to finish out the 2nd tank. I know this info may be out of the question but I have to try.
Again Thanks for that great piece
Happy Trails to all.
William
-
Commissar D, the Evil
- Moderator
- Posts: 4823
- Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:22 pm
- Location: New Jersey
Re: 4 Panzer and support
Hi William, glad to help.
If anyone can give a good, entertaining translation, count on Prit to do it!
Bix was an oberfeldwebel.
As you guessed, pictures of his mount in 1945 Prussia are fairly impossible to find. However, there is one picture that appears under a number of different captions in several Eastern European publications. It is the same picture, only the captions change, as it is invariably labeled either as belonging to either 4th Panzer Division or 563rd sHPz.Jgr. Abt. (Both units fought in the same area at the same time, hence the confusion.) It's not Bix's vehicle, his was lost in Danzig, but it is as close as you can come pictorially and is a full frontal view of a Jadgpanther which should give you an idea of the cammo pattern probably used at that time and place.
Wydawnickto Militaria #83 "Jagdpanther", page 29. (Polish and English)
Frontline Publications "1945, Volume 1", page 60. (Russian)
For a relatively lengthy account of Herman Bix's service career, try Franz Kurowski's "Panzer Aces I" pages 67-105 in the hardcover edition. (I think it is pages 71-141 in the softcover edition, which is naturally much, much cheaper!) By the way, as Prit's translation shows, Bix preferred the Panther and was somewhat disappointed when he received the Jagdpanther as a replacement vehicle. This has lead to a bit of a debate between Prit and myself as to which vehicle we would have preferred to crew in 1945 Prussia.....
(By the way, I won't ask why 4. Panzer is fighting the British Army--after the Battle of France, it was strictly an Eastern Front Division.)
Betens,
~D, the EviL
If anyone can give a good, entertaining translation, count on Prit to do it!
Bix was an oberfeldwebel.
As you guessed, pictures of his mount in 1945 Prussia are fairly impossible to find. However, there is one picture that appears under a number of different captions in several Eastern European publications. It is the same picture, only the captions change, as it is invariably labeled either as belonging to either 4th Panzer Division or 563rd sHPz.Jgr. Abt. (Both units fought in the same area at the same time, hence the confusion.) It's not Bix's vehicle, his was lost in Danzig, but it is as close as you can come pictorially and is a full frontal view of a Jadgpanther which should give you an idea of the cammo pattern probably used at that time and place.
Wydawnickto Militaria #83 "Jagdpanther", page 29. (Polish and English)
Frontline Publications "1945, Volume 1", page 60. (Russian)
For a relatively lengthy account of Herman Bix's service career, try Franz Kurowski's "Panzer Aces I" pages 67-105 in the hardcover edition. (I think it is pages 71-141 in the softcover edition, which is naturally much, much cheaper!) By the way, as Prit's translation shows, Bix preferred the Panther and was somewhat disappointed when he received the Jagdpanther as a replacement vehicle. This has lead to a bit of a debate between Prit and myself as to which vehicle we would have preferred to crew in 1945 Prussia.....
(By the way, I won't ask why 4. Panzer is fighting the British Army--after the Battle of France, it was strictly an Eastern Front Division.)
Betens,
~D, the EviL
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....
-
afrika.90light
- Supporter
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:43 am
- Location: Claymont De.USA
- Contact:
Re: 4 Panzer and support
Hi D, the EviL
Thanks for the info. I'll have to see what my Magic Librarian can do. Then I'll try ordering them if all else fails.
As for the Brits. There are no Russian Armys at this particular club. So I have to beat up on Brits. And the Jagdpanther is one of the few tanks that can take on the crocs front armour in this game. Though lately I've taken them out with GW43 mortars. Bad top armour. And since my front armour is tougher than theirs I just sit there and shoot. They can't get close enough to shoot me as that croc cannon doesn't have the range of my little old 88 and that gives me some free shots with no return fire. As for Jagdpanther versus Panther I'll say this. In this game I've played both against crocs. I'll take Jagdpanthers anytime. I've taken down crocs with the Panther but only with side shots. They don't even try to go toe to toe front on with Jagdpanthers, it's not even fair.
Thanks again.![:[]](./images/smilies/icon_study.gif "Study")
William
Thanks for the info. I'll have to see what my Magic Librarian can do. Then I'll try ordering them if all else fails.
As for the Brits. There are no Russian Armys at this particular club. So I have to beat up on Brits. And the Jagdpanther is one of the few tanks that can take on the crocs front armour in this game. Though lately I've taken them out with GW43 mortars. Bad top armour. And since my front armour is tougher than theirs I just sit there and shoot. They can't get close enough to shoot me as that croc cannon doesn't have the range of my little old 88 and that gives me some free shots with no return fire. As for Jagdpanther versus Panther I'll say this. In this game I've played both against crocs. I'll take Jagdpanthers anytime. I've taken down crocs with the Panther but only with side shots. They don't even try to go toe to toe front on with Jagdpanthers, it's not even fair.
Thanks again.
William