Meaning of letter "D" on map of 183.VGD.

[richard hedrick]

Below is a map for the 183.VGD for October 3, 1944, I am trying to identify the unit marked with what appears to be letter D. It’s a battalion size unit with companies 1, 2 and 4 identified on the map as well. There were few units of the 183rd identified as 183 as most units where numbered 219. Only the Füsilier battalion seems to be identified by the number 183, see gliederung below (dated October 1, 1944). One can also see that the diagram identifies only companies 1, 2 and 4, same as the map.

My questions are:
• What does the D on the map signify?
• What does the broken lines for the company boxes on the gliederung indicate (I thought they meant unit not currently with the division)?
• And lastly is it possible that the Füsilier battalion is the one identified on the map or were they in fact not with the division at this time.

Thanks
Richard

[MadDog]

D.....D...... drawing a blank there. Its kinf of a coincindence that there are the 1-2-4 Co. in the Fusilier Btl and the 1-2-4 on the map.

A number of gliederung I have seen have the broken lines being the unit is in formation. "Neuaufstellung" ?

What does the FMS document say about the Fusilier btl being present ?

Mad Dog

[richard hedrick]

Thanks Tom, it seems that Neuaufstellung could represent either a newly activated unit or a unit in reorganization and thanks to some off line help the D does in fact represent Stab eines Divisionfüsilierbataillons. I will just need to look further into this units activities.

Richard

[Jan]

Hi
According to my information was the Füs.Btl. only in April 1945 established.
Its Company? 1.,2.,4.Zg.?
Jan

[richard hedrick]

Thanks Jan. You are correct, Tessin shows the Füs.Btl. on April 1945 (see below) but I think maybe something else happened earlier. You make a good point about maybe being a company and then the small units are Zug size but the symbols on the map, the flag for sure, represents a battalion and the notation on the smaller units is also company notation, although I must admit that the notation for the Zg. escapes me at the moment. For sure the notation on the gliederung represent battalion and company units.

I have dug up a few more gliederung for the 183.VGD (see below) and from looking at these it seems that the unit started as a Füs.Kp. but then at some point may have been reorganized as a Füs.Btl. You will notice the last gliederung has the notation “Lw.F.Btl. XVI”, cross referencing with Tessing (see below) we see that this unit was absorbed into the 183 on October 16th. At least that’s what I think it says. Though the dates are not matching exactly it seems that maybe the Lw. unit was combined with the Füs.Kp. to form the Füs.Btl. Of interest (if the diagrams are accurate) is that the unit did not seem to gain any heavy weapons, though hard to tell when the single company was split into three it seems some of the MGs were moved from the first company to the others.

I know this is mostly speculative at the moment so I was hoping that maybe someone might have some additional information they could add to help solve the mystery.

Many thanks
Richard


Tessing: volume 7 - p.221

Div.Füsilier-Btl. 183. Die am 20.7.1944 befohlene Umbenennung des Füs.Btls. 217 der Korps-Abt. "C" in Div.Füs.Btl. 183 der 183. Inf.Div. wurde nicht wirksam, da erstere bereits vernichtet war; aufgelöst 5.8.1944;
Wiederaufstellung unter Einbeziehung der im Sept. 1944 errichteten Div.Füs.Kp. nach der FpÜ erst April 1945 aus dem I./Gren.Rgt. 351.
U: 183. Volks-Gren.Div.: 1945 Aachen, Rhein


Tessin: volume 4 - p.45

Luftwaffen-Festungs-Btl. XVI * Sept. 1944 zu 3 Kp. und der 15. Armee nach Arnheim zugeführt; 16.10.1944 aufgelöst und in die 183. Volks-Gren.Div. engegliedert.

[Timm Haasler]

Richard, Tom,

After the first Aachen campaign the American gave the Germans a chance to take a deep breath which was used to reorganize the badly stricken divisions by incorporating the scratch forces that had been assigned to them in September. Most of these scratch forces helped to rebuild 49. Infantry-Division. Only two units were allocated to 183. Volks-Grenadier-Division, this was most likely due to the fact that 183. V.G.D. had just arrived and only suffered minor losses so far.

A document issued by LXXXI. A.K. on 26.09.44 was called “Korpsbefehl für Neugliederung der Verbände” and showed Festungs-Maschinengewehr-Bataillon 42 and Luftwaffen-Festungs-Bataillon XVI as the two units that were chosen for incorporation into the division. The document also showed that both units should form the divisions Füsilier-Battalion and the F.E.B. with Kampfschule. From various other documents we know that Festungs-Maschinengewehr-Bataillon 42 became III. Grenadier-Regiment 330. Therefore it is highly likely from my point of view that Luftwaffen-Festungs-Bataillon XVI was used to upgrade Füsilier-Kompanie 183 to Füsilier-Battalion 183. I think this assumption is also confirmed by two G2-Reports of 2nd US Arm Div claiming to have captured members of the battalion (not company) on 14.10.1944.

From the map it looks like that Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1183 was also split, one part directly with Sturmpanzer-Abteilung 217 near Übach-Palenberg and the other part in the rearward area of Grenadier-Regiment 330. Am I right that the abbreviation in front of the number is “Vb”?

Best regards
Timm

[richard hedrick]

Thanks Timm for the additional information as it further clarifies things.

It could be Vb on the map but because some of the others are labled 1/3 i thought it could just be sloppy writing for 1/3. I have marked three locations for 1183, the one I have underlined twice I have zoomed and lightened up. It seems to be a 1/3 so I assumed the rest were also 1/3.

Thanks again,
Richard

[Timm Haasler]

Richard,

Thanks for the better scan which makes some aspects totally clear. It is indeed 1/3 and not Vb and we are not talking about Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1183! What we see on the map is only the Panzerjäger-Kompanie within the battalion which was equipped with 14 Jagdpanzer 38 (t).

One of the first actions of 183. Volks-Grenadier-Division was a counterattack of II. Grenadier-Regiment 330 together with only one platoon of the Panzerjäger company towards Übach (direction north) during the night of 02./03.10.1944. During the same night Sturmpanzer-Abteilung 217 was ordered to Beggendorf while the rest of Panzerjäger-Kompanie 1183 was ordered to move to Loverich, leaving behind one platoon in the battalion’s assembly area. The next day Sturmpanzer-Abteilung 217, Panzerjäger-Kompanie 1183 and elements of Pionier-Bataillon 219 were to attack from the Waukirchen area towards Übach (direction southwest). So we have 4 Jagdpanzer with II. Grenadier-Regiment 330, 6 Jagdpanzer with Pionier-Bataillon 219 and 4 Jagdpanzer in the assembly area (Brachelen).

This map is indeed very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Best regards
Timm

[richard hedrick]

Thanks Timm for providing all this extra detail.

I did realize it was the 183rd’s panzerjäger company and have been trying to find some reference to the symbol used on the map thinking it might be another representation for a company size unit. Note that all the battalion flags on this map are solid black but this units uses only black outline. I know the standard company flag is different than this but thought it might be a variation. I did not turn up anything though.

Also referring to the panzerjäger company I have noticed in LXXXI A.K. documentation they not only refer to this unit as Sturmgesch.Abt. 1183 but also on about October 4th start to refer to it as Sturmgesch.Abt. 1219. I am fairly certain they are still referring to 2./Pz.Jg.219. any thoughts on this?

Another observation is that even though this unit has le. Pz.Jg.38 as you indicated the LXXXI A.K. documents (except the Panzerlage) consistently refers to them as Sturmgeschütze. I suspect this was being used as a general term.

Richard

the full map:
http://downloads.sturmpanzer.net/Posts_ ... 000043.jpg

[Hans Weber]

Hello Richard

Regarding the unit sign it's the correct use of "Sturmgeschützabteilung innerhalb Pz. Jg. Abt."
That's when they used the name Abteilung to denote the Pz Jg.Kp. (Sturmgeschütz) within the Pz. Jg. Abt. (don't worry, this use of the term even fooled the Germans and later an order was issued later to stop this). You will find the first order starting this business dated Feb. 25th 1944 in H1-39, downloadable at your superbe webiste The Abteilung was later referenced "219" and "1219" in two different lists both dating from December 1944 (which is another proof how inconsistent and complicated it was). Both documents however confirm they used the Panzerjäger 38.

Cheers
Hans

[Timm Haasler]

Hi Richard,

Hans already got to the point, Panzerjäger-Abteilung 219 is a real mess. Martin Bock already helped to track the origins of the battalion. In September 1944 it was intended to raise Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1564 by using Sturmgeschütz-Kompanie 1306. On 23.09.44 Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1183 (formerly raised as Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1564) was allocated to 183. Volks-Grenadier-Division. The battalion, which in fact only had company strength, joined the division on 23.09.44. On 01.10.44 the organization department ordered to rename the Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung of 183. Volks-Grenadier-Division into 1219.

Panzerjäger-Abteilung 219 was made of:
Staff and staff company
1./ Panzerjäger-Abteilung 219 (9 tracked anti-tank guns)
Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1219 (14 Panzerjäger 38 (t))
3./ (Fla) Panzerjäger-Abteilung 219 (9 x 3,7cm anti-aircraft guns)
The 3rd Company didn’t join the battalion before the start of November 1944.

Thanks for sharing this excellent map, nice to see where the forces of 246. Volks-Grenadier-Division were employed at the start of the American offensive. Do you have the situation map for 09.10.1944 too, the day 1st US Inf Div started to attack north. I know that these maps are also available in Freiburg but you have to spend a fortune for copies of these large scale maps and the quality is lousy.

Last but not least, during September and October 1944 LXXXI. A.K. tended to name all tanks without a turret as “Sturmgeschütz”. This also included the Panzer IV/70 (V).

Best regards
Timm

[Hans Weber]

Hello

Yes indeed.

Richard, for the complex story of 183. ID, you will find the following in your H1-38 pdf. Order for formation of Korps Abteilung C, dated 11.10.1943, p. 207.
Order for dissolving Korps Abteilung C dated 20.07.1944, p. 190. Order for forming Schattendivision Döllersheim (31. Welle) at the Truppenübungplatz Döllersheim, Austria, WK XVII, p. 59. Order for formation of Volksgrenadier-Divisionen (32. Welle), dated 23.08.1944, p. 45. Schattendivison Döllersheim was one of the Schattendivisionen mentioned there. It was used to form 564. VGD at Döllersheim. For the typical Pz.Jg. Abt. of a 32. Welle VGD, see order dated 27.08.1944, p. 49. also used to form the VGD were remenants of the 183. ID, especially the Divisional Staff, and elements of 31. ID. (supply troops). In turn, 564. VGD was renamed 183. VGD, see eg overview dated 15.09.1944, p. 36.

Initially, it was planned to reform a StuG Abt. 1219 for the 183 ID (former Korps Abt. C) at Mielau (Umgliederung), equipped with StuGs (see monthly overview by Insp.d.Pz.Trp for August 1944, dated 4.08.1944. RH 10/109). 219 was always the number of divisional elements of 183. ID. In September 1944, StuG Abt 1564 was formed at Mielau as a Neuaufstellung for the new 564. VGD. This unit was always earmarked for the new Pz.Jg. 38. See above how it ended up with the outfit named 183. VGD.

Cheers
Hans

[richard hedrick]

Hans, Timm, fantastic information, I very grateful for this data. I appreciate the replies knowing the time it takes to put such information together and especially the references and dates.

I don’t recall having an October 9th map but I will have a look, I do however have an interesting October 7th map going southeast from Ubach that shows the positions of the Paks from I./AR.246 along with other units, mostly 49.I.D.

Many Thanks,
Richard


http://downloads.sturmpanzer.net/Posts_ ... 000820.jpg

[Timm Haasler]

Hi Richard,

Thanks again for sharing these maps, now it becomes clear which companies of Grenadier-Regiment 689 were overrun by 119th US Inf Rgt in the Merkstein area. What is puzzling me is the battalion shown between Baesweiler and Alsdorf because II./ Grenadier-Regiment 48 of 12. Volks-Grenadier-Division claimed to have covered the open ground between both villages since the night before. Furthermore, 49. Infantry Division had ordered assault guns to Oidtweiler in the afternoon, but no information was given as to which unit these assault guns belonged. Looking at the map it looks like 18 assault guns were in the village, but none of the attached assault gun brigades could field 18 combat ready assault guns on this day. Maybe Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 341 and 902 as well as Sturmgeschütz-Kompanie 1012 were combined into a single fighting unit.

Like so often these maps are helping to answer questions but also start to raise numerous new questions.

Best regards
Timm