Help needed: 206th ID and 14th ID (Mot), 25th-29th Nov 1942

[dduff442]

Hi All,

I'm looking for help on these units, specifically on the 301st Gren Reg of the 206th ID, and the 11th Gren Reg and associated supporting units of the 14th ID (Mot), during the fighting in the areas of Yakhimovo, Dubovik, Sukhusha, Trushkovo, Ploti, Soust'evo and Zaitsevo during the defense by XXIII AK of the 9th Army against Operation Mars in the Rzhev salient.

I've a wealth of info from the Soviet side on this battle and a detailed history of the 11th Infantry Reg is online, but I know almost nothing about the 301st IR or its parent unit, the 206th ID bar what's on lexicon-der-wehrmacht.com and feldgrau.com.

Regards,
dduff

[Erik k.]

Hi,

I guess you found my website about the 11 IR (and 14ID)!

I don't know how your German reading is, but on the next page you will find a few lines about the 301 and 206 during the period you mentioned.
It is in the part starting with "Der Kampf westlich Rshew"

http://home.hccnet.nl/e.kooistra/winterslag1942.html
It is all in German, but if you like i could translate the part about the 301!
This part originate from the Book by Horst Grossmann: Rzhew, eckpfeiler der Ostfront.

Also on this page you find a short reference to the 301IR and 206ID:
http://home.hccnet.nl/e.kooistra/extens ... ngels.html
and here to:
http://home.hccnet.nl/e.kooistra/fortzetzung21.html (also in German).

This info originate from the "official" IR11 history book.

Regards,

Erik

[dduff442]

Hi Erik,

Found it alright. Great stuff. It was this that really sparked my interest as I'd been deciphering some Soviet accounts of the fighting and when I found your site I realised I'd some info from both sides in the battle.

The counter-attack of the 11th Gren Reg on 26/11/42 was ill-fated. They attacked the base of the breakthrough, a fairly standard if completely reasonable tactic. They weren't to know that some of the main breakthrough forces were on their right flank, having failed to make any progress the day before.

I'm going to put together an account of the battle on the 206th Div's right flank, as the Soviet accounts are quite detailed. I'll post the address here when it's ready.

Thanks & Regards,
dduff

[Erik k.]

Thank you Dduff442,

I would realy like to have that link.
For long i would like to study the Russian story on this, but unfortunately i do not have any access to Russian information and i do not read Russian.

I would like to put more coherent information on my site and crosslink to sites about other divisions.

But it is a lot of work and i do not have time to do all the things i want.

Thanks and good luck,

Regards

Erik

[cpa95]

Thank you Dduff442,
For long i would like to study the Russian story on this, but unfortunately i do not have any access to Russian information and i do not read Russian.
Erik

Hi Erik,

do you know the book written by Glantz, Operation Mars - Shukovs greatest defeat? It gives some details about the battle for the russian side.

Greetings
Thomas

[Erik k.]

Hi cpa95,

Yes i know that book. It gave me some great help regarding the "Mars" periode.

But a lot happend before and after "Mars".
It are also these periodes that intressed me and i want to know the Russian side of it to.

Thanks anyway,

Regards,

Erik

[dduff442]

Hi All,

It's a fine book, but in assembling all that detail about the main axes of attack, he didn't leave any time to research the 'Molodoi Tud' operation (the river is actually called the 'Tudovka'), so all of his info there is from secondary sources and there are a few errors. I have German and Soviet sources in aggreement about ops in the area of Yakimovo/Trushkovo/Zaitsevo etc, but all disagree with some of Glantz's stuff. In particular, the maps of the Molodoi Tud operation are wrong in many details.

I don't think the other sections of the book are similarly flawed, as Glantz did much more research on those.

Regards,
dduff