Sturm-Brigade Südost

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Abel Ravasz
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Sturm-Brigade Südost

Post by Abel Ravasz » Fri May 05, 2006 5:07 am

Hi,

I'm looking for information about the so-called Sturm-Brigade Südost that shows up in the OKW OoB for 30/4/45 under LXIX. AK, HGr E. Any info including composition, commander etc is welcome.

Is there any connection between this unit and the so-called Division(sgruppe) zbV Fischer?

Thanks,

Abel

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Re: Sturm-Brigade Südost

Post by Lorenz » Fri May 05, 2006 10:43 am

Abel Ravasz wrote:Hi,
I'm looking for information about the so-called Sturm-Brigade Südost that shows up in the OKW OoB for 30/4/45 under LXIX. AK, HGr E. Any info including composition, commander etc is welcome.
Is there any connection between this unit and the so-called Division(sgruppe) zbV Fischer?
Thanks,
Abel
Sturm-Brigade Südost
The composition of these ad hoc formations that were thrown together in the last days of the war are very mirky.

15 Jan 45: composition of Kampfgruppe Fischer: Aufkl.Abt. 68, I.u.II./21, I.u.II./891, III./892, III./893, and 4 batteries) – located in the Podravska Slatina area. (NARA T-311 roll 189 OB Südost Ic/A.O. files).
1 Apr 45: composition of Kampfgruppe Fischer: Aufkl.Abt. 68, 2 engineer battalions, 1 police battalion, 1 Pz.-Abt. and several artillery batteries). Under LXXXXI. Armeekorps and located along the Drava River. ([Vojnoistorijski institute] - Završne Operacije za Oslobodenje Jugoslavije 1944-1945 (Beograd: 1957), p.476).
12 Apr 45: Kampfgruppe Fischer shown as the only unit subordinated to LXIX. Armeekorps. (Tessin: Bd. XIV, p.64).
30 Apr 45: Sturm-Brigade Südost now shown as the only unit under LXIX. Armeekorps. There is no longer any listing for Kampfgruppe Fischer anywhere – it’s gone. (Rauchensteiner, p.362).
7 May 45: final Kriegsgliederung for Heeresgruppe E and Pz.AOK 2. There is no mention of Sturm-Brigade Südost or of Kampfgruppe Fischer anywhere in the listing. Subordinated to LXIX. Armeekorps were: 7. SS-Freiw.Geb.Div. “Prinz Eugen”, 181. Inf.Div., 3d Croatian Inf. Div., 7th Croatian Mountain Div. and 8th Croatian Inf. Div. (Tessin, Bd. XIV., p.64).

Conclusion: Sturm-Brigade Südost appears to have been the former Kampfgruppe Fischer, but its existence is questionable. It may have only existed on paper. Its name first appears during the last 10 days of April, but then disappears during the first week of May.

--Lorenz

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Post by Abel Ravasz » Fri May 05, 2006 10:56 am

Hi Lorenz,

thanks for the input!
Seems that we are on the same brainwave here - Fischer disappearing and the brigade showing up. But here's what Dieter Zienke had to say at Another History Forum:
Dieter Zinke wrote:This unit was built out of "Kampfgruppe Engelbrecht"
(established out of the german Ausbildungs-Bataillone bei der kroatischen Wehrmacht; 3. and 4. kroatische Jäger-Brigade and kroat. Gebirgs-Brigade).
1945 Heerestruppe in Kroatien
Fp.-Nr. 02873, 04450, 05173 and 07571

D. Zinke
Seems that the two units were not the same after all.

In the meantime, I have got SS Pol Reg 5 and SS Pol-GebJg Reg 18 under the command of DG Fischer for early 1945. Could You confirm this or is this a hoax?

Abel

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Post by Lorenz » Fri May 05, 2006 11:00 am

In the meantime, I have got SS Pol Reg 5 and SS Pol-GebJg Reg 18 under the command of DG Fischer for early 1945. Could You confirm this or is this a hoax?
No, they were under Jilski and Stephan.......I have no record of them ever being under Fischer, which was all-Heer.

--Lorenz

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Post by Marko » Fri May 05, 2006 11:20 am

Hi Abel, Lorenz!

According to Schmidt-Richberg (Der Endkampf auf dem Balkan, p.117 ) this Brigade "went over to the newly formed KG Fischer" on 27 March 1945.

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Post by Lorenz » Fri May 05, 2006 2:36 pm

Marko wrote:Hi Abel, Lorenz!

According to Schmidt-Richberg (Der Endkampf auf dem Balkan, p.117 ) this Brigade "went over to the newly formed KG Fischer" on 27 March 1945.

Hi Marko!

You mean Sturm-Brigade Südost went over to Fischer on 27 March? That sounds odd because Fischer already existed way back in mid-January. So "newly formed" doesn't sound quite right.

--Lorenz :?

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Post by Lorenz » Fri May 05, 2006 4:14 pm

Here's a little more on Sturm-Brigade Südost:

30 Mar 45: Sturm-Brigade Südost along the Drava under LXIX. Armeekorps. [Colić, Mladenko – Pregled Operacija na Jugoslovenskom Ratištu 1941-1945 (Belgrade: Vojnoistorijski Institut, 1988), p.320].
6 Apr 45: the German front extended from Varaždin through Csaktornya to Mursko-Sredisce and then along the Mur in a westerly direction. Advancing enemy formations took Csaktornya. A Bulgarian formation crossed the Drava (Drau) between Varaždin and Ludbreg, but was thrown back by Sturm-Brigade Südost. [Tieke, Wilhelm – Vom Plattensee bis Österreich: Heeresgruppe Süd 1945 (Selbstverlag Wilhelm Tieke, n.d.), p.107].
8 Apr 45: the OKH Lagekarte (in BA-MA Freiburg III H 73K/14 as reproduced in Rauchensteiner – Krieg in Österreich 1945) shows Sturm-Brigade Südost deployed along a front in the Županec – Legrad area 32 km E of Varaždin and Fischer deployed around Hrastovsko/20 km ESE of Varaždin. The important thing is that they are shown as two different units and that Sturm-Brigade Südost was already in existence by that date. SS-Pol.Geb.Rgt. 18 was located about 5 km E of Varaždin and is also shown as a completely separate unit.

--Lorenz

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Post by Jan-Hendrik » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:12 am

Gentlemen, great thread, as usual when I see the involved contributors 8)

Well, did this Kampfgruppe Engelbrecht have any connections with General der Artillerie Erwin Engelbrecht?

Jan-Hendrik

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Post by Doktor Krollspell » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:56 am

Hello Gentlemen!

Jan-Hendrik, General der Artillerie Erwin Engelbrecht's last command was that of "Commanding General of Higher Command Saarpfalz (25 Sep 1944-08 May 1945)" according to the Axis Biographical Research website. I suppose that's Saarpfalz in the Saarland, i e a long way from Croatia or for that matter Croatian units in 1945?

Just a two penny worth of opinion...


Regards,

Krollspell
"Wie es eigentlich gewesen ist"
Leopold von Ranke (1795-1886)

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Post by Jan-Hendrik » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:05 am

I know this entry :wink:

But according to an article in the (not really trust-worthy) german magazine "Nation&Europa" was claimed that Engelbrecht was in the area Bohemia-Austria during the very last days of the war and to have surrendered to General Patton personally. Now I try to trace down how much this article is believable, and for sure where Engelbrecht was during the last days... :?:

:beer:

Jan-Hendrik

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Post by Lorenz » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:10 am

Jan-Hendrik wrote:Gentlemen, great thread, as usual when I see the involved contributors 8)
Well, did this Kampfgruppe Engelbrecht have any connections with General der Artillerie Erwin Engelbrecht?
Jan-Hendrik

Kampfgruppe Engelbrecht

Formed December 1944 in the vicinity of Koprivnica/SE of Zagreb under LXIX. Armeekorps, but belonged to Heerestruppe (in Kroatien). It consisted of German training battalions that had been training the Croatian mountain and Jäger brigades:
I. (1.-4. from Dt.Ausb.Btl. 4 formerly with the Croatian 4. Jäger-Brig.);
II. (5.-8. from Dt.Ausb.Btl. 4 formerly with the Croatian 4. Gebirgs-Brig.);
III. (9.-12. from Dt.Ausb.Btl. 3 formerly with the Croatian 3. Jäger-Brig.).
At the end of December, the Kampfgruppe was “in training” while at the same time securing the rear of the II. Kosaken-Brig.

“Engelbrecht” was an Obstlt. and former Kommandeur of one of the Dt.Ausb.Btle.

Unfortunately, I do not have any more than that, J-H. It operated in the LXIX. AK sector to the east of Zagreb, but the Korps records do not go past 31 Dec 44.

--Lorenz

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Post by Jan-Hendrik » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:12 am

Merci, so this is a "cold"path for me...

But thank you for the info on this KaGru., much apreciated, dear friend 8)

:beer:

Jan-Hendrik

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Post by panzerschreck1 » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:30 am

Hi this is the route from ss grbirgsjager regiment 18

The regiment's subsequent positions followed the general retreat of the German Armed Forces in the Balkans:
December 1944 - February 1945: Basenova, Mandelos, Kuzmin, Osijek
February 15 - March 30: Valpovo, Noskovski
April 1 - 26: Vasla, Varazdin
April 27 - May 5: Koprivnica
May 8: Ludbreg/Jabzabet
May 9: Treun-Pragerhof

In April and May 1945, the decimated regiment served as rear garde for General Pannwitz's XV Cossack Cavalry Corps (which consisted of mostly Russians) during the bitter defensive fighting against the Soviets

I think the regiment did not belong all the time to army group E..
Anyone knows the route from the remnants of Skanderbeg/ PE/ Handscharr they served as a rearguard for armygroup E retreat thru the Balkans
"Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."[

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