Fate of Grenzschutz Regiments 32 and 42?

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:20 am

What became of the Grenzschutz Regiments 32 and 42 after the Polish Campaign in 1939, when they no longer had a frontier to guard?

Were they taken into a new infantry division?

If not, what happened to them?

Is there a part of Feldgrau.com or another link that deals with the organisational fate of the various German border guard units when they became redundant?

Many thanks,

Sid.

Leo Niehorster · Post by **Leo Niehorster** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:38 am

Tessin indicates that both Grenzwacht-Abschnitt 32 and 42 were dissolved in the Fall of 1939.

Cheers
Leo

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:27 am

Hi Leo,

Thanks very much.

I find it strange that formed units such as these weren't taken intact into the German Army as it expanded.

Do you think that they were broken up, or do we simply lack the necessary information to track the trail of their absorption as renumbered units into the army?

Cheers,

Sid.

Leo Niehorster · Post by **Leo Niehorster** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:41 am

The 32 and 42 were raised upon mobilization (26.08.39) from the Ausbildungsleiter (Chief of Training of) Neutstettin and Stolp, respectively, so they were not really "normal" units. As Tessin indicates, they were in fact dissolved. The manpower was probably used to replace some of the 44,000 [*] German casualties suffered during the 1939 Poland Campaign.

[*] To be exact: 16,343 dead, 27,280 wounded, 320 missing.

Cheers
Leo

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:40 am

Hi Leo,

Many thanks.

A Polish book on the siege of Gdynia has them operating with 5th Cavalry Regiment in the north of the Polish Corridor. However, as far as I can tell, 5th Cavalry Regiment was elsewhere, so I guess that either the Poles are mistaken or it was the depot, training and replacement elements of 5th Cavalry Regiment that were employed on this particular front.

As a matter of interest, have you ever seen a breakdown of German losses in the Polish campaign by corps or division? I am trying to establish what it cost Corps Kaupisch (207 Infantry Division, Brigade Eberhardt, 32nd and 42nd Grenzschutz Regiments) to capture Gdynia over 1-19 September.

Cheers,

Sid.

Leo Niehorster · Post by **Leo Niehorster** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:34 am

No idea. You might try contacting Bill Russ who is writing the definitive history of the 1939 Poland Campaign.

Cheers
Leo

william russ · Post by **william russ** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:59 pm

Hi Sid,
I have not seen any casualty breakdowns for Corps Kaupisch for this time period in the microfilm rolls I have. They could possibly be in one of the others as I do not have all the rolls for Corps Kaupisch for this time period, so I'll look in the guide books tomorrow to see if they are any.

Best regards, Bill

william russ · Post by **william russ** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:47 am

Hi Sid,
I checked the guide books and there is no mention of having casualty figures. I'm not sure where else you can find that information.
By the way, there was no 5th Cavalry Regiment in the Corps Kaupisch order of battle. I'm not sure where the Polish book got that information.

Bill

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:05 am

Hi Bill,

Thanks, anyway.

Doubtless such statistics are buried in the archives somewhere.

Cheers,

Sid.

crolick · Post by **crolick** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:59 pm

Hello Sid et al

I'm looking for the OdeB of G.R. 32 and 42 on 1 IX 1939 - any idea where I might find it?!

Best wishes,
Andrzej

william russ · Post by **william russ** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:13 pm

Hi Crolick,
I have the OB for the regiments on the OB charts for the 1st Border Command for September 1, 1939. I will try and find them and scan them to post here when I get a chance. Maybe tomorrow.

best regards, Bill

crolick · Post by **crolick** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:04 am

Thank you Bill - that would be great!

william russ · Post by **william russ** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:14 am

Hi Crolick,
Here it is. It was not as hard to find as I thought it would be. I already had it digitized

.
This part of the OB is from the National Archives microfilm series T312, roll # 112, Frame # 7641297.

Best regards, Bill

: T312-112-7641297B.jpg (122.38 KiB) Viewed 6490 times

crolick · Post by **crolick** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:33 am

Dear Bill,

thank you very much for help

Though since I'm completely dumbass in reading those military symbols I would like to ask if I'm reading it correctly:
- are Sp 42 and Sp 32 pionier battalions?! What 'Sp' stands for?!
- why one of the Sp 32 battalions does not have any number?!
- why one of the battalions have 'St' instead of 'G'?! What 'St' stands for?!
- why on the symbol of 'G' battalions there is '+' and '16'?!
- why III./42 and IV./42 have two companies and on the third it is written 3)?! The same applies to V./32.
- I always thought that companies numbers are consecutive. But here we have I./42 - 1, 2, 3 and II./42 - 3, 4, 5, 6. Why is it so?!
Sorry for asking so many questions but I would like not to make mistakes in the future while reading those kind of OdeB.

Best wishes,
Andrzej

PS. If it is possible OdeB of GAK I would be also greatly welcomed!!

william russ · Post by **william russ** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:10 am

Hi Crolick,
Don't feel too bad. A lot of us are still "dumbasses" in relation to vast array of info that is out there. I had to go back and look up a bunch of the stuff you asked about. It had been so long since I had looked at this material I had refresh my memory

. I just hope I can adequetely answer your questions.

1. Sp= Sperre (blocking). In other words for defensive purposes only. And yes, they are pioniere (engineers).
2. That is a good question. Probably just an additional engineer company added to the battalion for reinforcement. Where it came from is anybodys guess.
3. St = "Stab eines Stellungsunterabschnitt". According to Note 1, this is a battalion headquarters (V/32) created to control two rifle companies which had been recently and converted from being static machine gun companies. See number 5 below.
4. The plus sign is the symbol for the light machine guns. It is actually a vertical line with two dots on either side. The reproduction is not too clear. The 16 is the number of light machine guns each company has.
5. What you see on III/42, IV/42 and V/32 are note references related to what is in the Erläuterung (explanation) in the lower right corner. V/32 has 1.), which is note 1 (explained above) and the III/42 and IV/42 has 3.), reference note number 3. The note for III/42 and IV /42 says that the two indicated companies were newly raised companies from customs officials!. The companies have no numbers.
6. That's a good question. It is apparent that some of the companies are missing and it can be surmised that they were detached for other duties like guarding the lines of communication, guarding facilties, etc.
I hope this answers your questions. Oh, and I will PM you about your request for the entire 1st Border Command OB. Which is a yes by the way

.

best regards, Bill

Feldgrau.net

Fate of Grenzschutz Regiments 32 and 42?

Fate of Grenzschutz Regiments 32 and 42?

Corps Kaupisch casualty figures

No casualty reports in the microfilm rolls

Re: Fate of Grenzschutz Regiments 32 and 42?

Re: Fate of Grenzschutz Regiments 32 and 42?

Re: Fate of Grenzschutz Regiments 32 and 42?

Re: Fate of Grenzschutz Regiments 32 and 42?

Re: Fate of Grenzschutz Regiments 32 and 42?

Re: Fate of Grenzschutz Regiments 32 and 42?