Panzer Divisions in Russia
Moderator: Tom Houlihan
Panzer Divisions in Russia
My Father fought in the Stalingrad & Normandy Theatre of war in the 10th SS Panzer Division,I am trying to locate others who where also there and came from the Stettin area of Pommerania
1948
Sorry to throw you a little bit of a curveball, but the 10. SS-Panzer-Division was not formed until well after Stalingrad and did not actually see combat until April (?) 1944.
Now that is not to say that your father wasn't a member of that division later on, but if he saw combat in the Stalingrad area, the closest Waffen-SS division I can come up with is "Wiking", which was no where near the actual Stalingrad debacle or subsequent rescue attempts, but certainly affected by them.
What other information can you share/do you remember? I recently went through the same process to trace my father's military record. A daunting task, to say the least.
Now that is not to say that your father wasn't a member of that division later on, but if he saw combat in the Stalingrad area, the closest Waffen-SS division I can come up with is "Wiking", which was no where near the actual Stalingrad debacle or subsequent rescue attempts, but certainly affected by them.
What other information can you share/do you remember? I recently went through the same process to trace my father's military record. A daunting task, to say the least.
Philip is correct about the 10th SS Panzer Division "Hohenstaufen". Their first action was in the Tarnopol-area battles in April 1944, which also involved the rescue of the trapped 1st Panzer Army from the Kamenets-Podolsk Pocket.
However, Wiking was involved in the area of Kotelnikovo in late December 1942 and January 1943. Wiking was transferred at this time to the LVII Panzer Corps from the Caucasus after the LVII Panzer Corps had to give up the 6th Panzer Division to the XLVIII Panzer Corps after the failure of the Stalingrad Relief attempts.
Cheers,
Wolfkin
However, Wiking was involved in the area of Kotelnikovo in late December 1942 and January 1943. Wiking was transferred at this time to the LVII Panzer Corps from the Caucasus after the LVII Panzer Corps had to give up the 6th Panzer Division to the XLVIII Panzer Corps after the failure of the Stalingrad Relief attempts.
Cheers,
Wolfkin
Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!!
Wolfkin made a big time error 
, confusing the names of the 10th SS with the 9th SS and interestingly this is quite a common mistake in a numerous books.
Powerful, I'm sure you know that the 10th SS-Panzer Division was actually named Frundsberg. The formation of the division started in December 1942 in France (it's original name was »Karl der Große« and it's first commander was Lothar Debes) but saw it's first combat as already mentioned in April 1944 (more precisely on 5 April) during the counterattack by II.SS-Pz.Korps (9.,10.SS-Pz.Div., 367.Inf.Div., 100.Jg.Div., sPzAbt.506, Pz.Jg.Abt.653) only in the area of-Buczacz (Tarnopol-9.SS-Pz.Div.) and successfully shooke hands with the grenadiers from 6.Pz.Div. (1.Pz.Armee) on 6 April.
If your father was really in Stalingrad then I guess he could have been there as a member of some Heer division or maybe as a RAD worker.
If you have any other question or info just post it and I will be happy to answer it.
Marko
, confusing the names of the 10th SS with the 9th SS and interestingly this is quite a common mistake in a numerous books.Powerful, I'm sure you know that the 10th SS-Panzer Division was actually named Frundsberg. The formation of the division started in December 1942 in France (it's original name was »Karl der Große« and it's first commander was Lothar Debes) but saw it's first combat as already mentioned in April 1944 (more precisely on 5 April) during the counterattack by II.SS-Pz.Korps (9.,10.SS-Pz.Div., 367.Inf.Div., 100.Jg.Div., sPzAbt.506, Pz.Jg.Abt.653) only in the area of-Buczacz (Tarnopol-9.SS-Pz.Div.) and successfully shooke hands with the grenadiers from 6.Pz.Div. (1.Pz.Armee) on 6 April.
If your father was really in Stalingrad then I guess he could have been there as a member of some Heer division or maybe as a RAD worker.
If you have any other question or info just post it and I will be happy to answer it.
Marko
Ooops! 
Marko is correct! I can't believe I did that! 10th SS Pz. Div. is "Frundsberg" and 9th SS Pz. Div. is "Hohenstaufen". I confused the two of them since they were both in the same Panzer Corps, I guess. At least I confused them with one in the same Corps, eh? If I would have called them "Das Reich" or "Totenkopf" then there would be no excuse at all for making that much of a mistake!
Gee, sometimes my hands do not type what my mind is thinking.
Thank you for the correction, Marko!
Cheers,
Wolfkin
Marko is correct! I can't believe I did that! 10th SS Pz. Div. is "Frundsberg" and 9th SS Pz. Div. is "Hohenstaufen".
I confused the two of them since they were both in the same Panzer Corps, I guess. At least I confused them with one in the same Corps, eh? If I would have called them "Das Reich" or "Totenkopf" then there would be no excuse at all for making that much of a mistake! Gee, sometimes my hands do not type what my mind is thinking.
Thank you for the correction, Marko!
Cheers,
Wolfkin
Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!!
Heehee...Marko, of course a little drama is ok!
I just curse my horrible typing skills once in a while. Darn them two left thumbs again! One day I wil get to 40 letters a minute! 
Cheers,
Wolfkin
I just curse my horrible typing skills once in a while. Darn them two left thumbs again!
One day I wil get to 40 letters a minute! Cheers,
Wolfkin
Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!!
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Sean Oliver
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Sorry about your grandfather....What was his name? Did he consider publishing his memoirs? The men of 24.Panzer considered themselves an elite formation. They were originally the 1.Kavallerie Div., and converted to armor in '41. I have been a 'fan' of 24.Pz ever since I found a great little book entitled "Der Gegenschlacht" written by F.M. von Senger und Etterlin,who was an officer in the division(and also wrote the division's history and a number of other books about armored warfare) The book details three engagements - two near Nikopol, Nov. 1943, and one near Targul Frumos, Rumania in May of '44, on the right flank of PzGren-Div."Grossdeutschland". The book explains how the understrength 24.Pz was used to stop large Soviet armored assaults,and how NATO could develop its tactical doctrine based on German Eastern Front experiences. I'm sure your father's memoirs are fascinating. It would be great to read them. Please, tell us more! Thanks, Sean
Hey Wolf!
I'm sorry I didn't see your post earlier. I would also like to pass on my condolences on the loss of your Grandfather.
Would it be possible for you to share some of your Grandfather's experiences? Do you know what part of the 24th Panzer Division he was attached to? I understand if you are not able to share.
I am also interested in the 24th Panzer Division. Even after they were converted from Cavalry to Panzer they still retained the "Schwadron" designation instead of "Kompanie". They also retained the rank of "Wachtmeister" instead of "Feldwebel", I believe but I may be incorrect on this.
The I/24th Panzer Regiment fought with the 116th Panzer Division during Normandy and the Aachen battles.
Best Regards,
Wolfkin
I'm sorry I didn't see your post earlier. I would also like to pass on my condolences on the loss of your Grandfather.
Would it be possible for you to share some of your Grandfather's experiences? Do you know what part of the 24th Panzer Division he was attached to? I understand if you are not able to share.
I am also interested in the 24th Panzer Division. Even after they were converted from Cavalry to Panzer they still retained the "Schwadron" designation instead of "Kompanie". They also retained the rank of "Wachtmeister" instead of "Feldwebel", I believe but I may be incorrect on this.
The I/24th Panzer Regiment fought with the 116th Panzer Division during Normandy and the Aachen battles.
Best Regards,
Wolfkin
Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!!
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Tom Houlihan
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24th Panzer
And the 24th tankers fought well, too. Guderian speaks very highly of them in his book.
24th Panzer Div
They changed the it back to feldwebel in late 1944..He served in(my Grandfather that is) in Schützen-Bataillon I.
He had joined up with his brother Muller in 1941.Muller had joint to become a tankdriver and my Grandfather Ernst to fight with his brother but as an infantryman.He was told by his father to look after Muller who was 3 years younger than he was.(19)
He didn't see any action until 1942 when they took part in an offensive around the Voronesh area and that saw 2 of his best best friends die.
On the Don front one night whaen he as in a Small Russian village his brothers battilion was sent out to attack a Russian defences in some woods and muller came back wounded in the arm.
Then on to Stalingrad were in the "sunny time" as he called it he was promoted to Unteroffizier and earnt the War Merit Kross for saving a commander,a certain Arno Von Lenski.
By Novenber 1942 he was wounded in the bum! and flown out on one of the last transports to leave Stalingrad.
When he recovered he was posted to the 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich as a Leutenant and given some leave were he visited muller who was serving with the Newley formed 24th Panzer Division in France were he was posted.He fought on up till Normandy were he recieved the Knights Kross for re capturing a wine cellar in a small french town.
At Bastogne he was promoted to Captain and was pleased to have his youngest brother Dietmar in his regiment.He had just joint up.
But sadly as he served in Hungary he was told the news about Mullers death.Muller had died in a tank the most horrible way to die ever.
Ernst then became unreliable for a while and was asked if he wanted to be transfered but he said no and realised that he would ahve to protect his remaining brother.A month before the wars end Dietmar was wounded and died in Hospital then Ernst becmae a savage(as he told me) he hated the rusiians and killed evry one he saw even if they surrendered.He just saw red when ever in battle and did reckless things to kill just one Russian such as run across a field while being fired upon so he could throw a mine at a commisar who had shot one of his leutenants earlier that day.When his Divsion was captured he and another officer deserted and surrendered to the British 11 hours before the waR ENDED. He went on to be an arcitect when realesed as a prisoner.
He had joined up with his brother Muller in 1941.Muller had joint to become a tankdriver and my Grandfather Ernst to fight with his brother but as an infantryman.He was told by his father to look after Muller who was 3 years younger than he was.(19)
He didn't see any action until 1942 when they took part in an offensive around the Voronesh area and that saw 2 of his best best friends die.
On the Don front one night whaen he as in a Small Russian village his brothers battilion was sent out to attack a Russian defences in some woods and muller came back wounded in the arm.
Then on to Stalingrad were in the "sunny time" as he called it he was promoted to Unteroffizier and earnt the War Merit Kross for saving a commander,a certain Arno Von Lenski.
By Novenber 1942 he was wounded in the bum! and flown out on one of the last transports to leave Stalingrad.
When he recovered he was posted to the 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich as a Leutenant and given some leave were he visited muller who was serving with the Newley formed 24th Panzer Division in France were he was posted.He fought on up till Normandy were he recieved the Knights Kross for re capturing a wine cellar in a small french town.
At Bastogne he was promoted to Captain and was pleased to have his youngest brother Dietmar in his regiment.He had just joint up.
But sadly as he served in Hungary he was told the news about Mullers death.Muller had died in a tank the most horrible way to die ever.
Ernst then became unreliable for a while and was asked if he wanted to be transfered but he said no and realised that he would ahve to protect his remaining brother.A month before the wars end Dietmar was wounded and died in Hospital then Ernst becmae a savage(as he told me) he hated the rusiians and killed evry one he saw even if they surrendered.He just saw red when ever in battle and did reckless things to kill just one Russian such as run across a field while being fired upon so he could throw a mine at a commisar who had shot one of his leutenants earlier that day.When his Divsion was captured he and another officer deserted and surrendered to the British 11 hours before the waR ENDED. He went on to be an arcitect when realesed as a prisoner.
"What is a world without war"
Thank you for sharing the story of your Grandfather. It must have been hard for him to speak of this. I am sorry for the loss of your two Great Uncles.
Did he end the war as a member of Das Reich?
Cheers,
Wolfkin
Did he end the war as a member of Das Reich?
Cheers,
Wolfkin
Amateurs limit their study to either Tactics, Strategy or Logistics. Professionals study ALL THREE of these!!!
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christyl57
- New Member
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 5:35 pm
Hello, I am not sure if this is approiate here but I will ask anyway. I am writing a research paper about WWII German Soldiers, my paper is to prove the German Soldier was a human being with human emotions contrary to what most history books show. I am looking for some personal accounts from WWII if anyone is willing to share their stories I would be grateful.
Thank you very much,
Christyl
Thank you very much,
Christyl
Re: Panzer Divisions in Russia
Thank you to all for your replies
2 weeks ago my Father phoned me to say that 65 yrs ago today he was stretchered off a hospital ship
in Southampton after being taken prisoner of war in Normandy.
After being released from the Prisoner of War camp, he met my Mother, I came along and the rest is history.
I have tried to gleen information about his time in the army, but it is a taboo area, he does not talk about it at all.
I know about Tarnopol & Normandy, the Stalingrad scenario was something that I misunderstood when I was very young as he sometimes talked about Russia in general.
He is in reasonable health for 85yrs of age.
The only thing he would like to find out is are there any other veterans from his village Kublank now Kobylanks still alive.
I have been unable to trace anyone, it is a very daunting task.
Regards to all
Powerfull
2 weeks ago my Father phoned me to say that 65 yrs ago today he was stretchered off a hospital ship
in Southampton after being taken prisoner of war in Normandy.
After being released from the Prisoner of War camp, he met my Mother, I came along and the rest is history.
I have tried to gleen information about his time in the army, but it is a taboo area, he does not talk about it at all.
I know about Tarnopol & Normandy, the Stalingrad scenario was something that I misunderstood when I was very young as he sometimes talked about Russia in general.
He is in reasonable health for 85yrs of age.
The only thing he would like to find out is are there any other veterans from his village Kublank now Kobylanks still alive.
I have been unable to trace anyone, it is a very daunting task.
Regards to all
Powerfull