SS Polizei Batalionen

German unit histories, lineages, OoBs, ToEs, commanders, fieldpost numbers, organization, etc.

Moderator: Tom Houlihan

zezio73
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:36 am

SS Polizei Batalionen

Post by zezio73 » Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:19 am

Hi, I'm looking for information about SS Polizei Batalionen

I think that these Batalionen were subordinate units of 4th SS Polizei Division (is that right?), but I haven't found nothing about their organization and their employment.

I've looked at site http://www.Lexicon-der-Wehrmacht.de , but unfortunately I can't speak German and so I don't understand everything. I've looked at site waffenss-online too, but I've found only a short paragraph about the 4th SS Polizei Division. Can anyone help me?

In particoular I'd like to know something about

- SS Polizei Infanterie Sturm Batalion

a friend of mine tells that this unit has never exist, but I've found on a boook (Hitler's willing executioners by D.J. Goldhagen) information about a 13th Polizei Batalion (employment area , from november to december 1942. Mlawa District) are they the same unit?
Thanks a lot Zezio

____________________

"Ubique quo honos et gloria ducunt"

Lorenz
Patron
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:10 am

Post by Lorenz » Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:35 am

If you would give a simple "Thank You" when people on this Board take their time to answer your questions (e.g., Flakscheinwerfer-Abt. 470), then perhaps they might be willing to help you again.

--Lorenz

zezio73
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:36 am

Sorry

Post by zezio73 » Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:12 am

To Lorenz:

I beg your pardon, but I've sent you a personal message on Monday to thank you for the information about Flakschw. Abteilung 470.

If you don't receive the message, let me thank you again NOW!!!

Excuse me, Zezio

________________

"Ubique quo honos et gloria ducunt"

zezio73
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:36 am

Postscript to the above

Post by zezio73 » Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:19 am

POSCRIPT TO THE ABOVE

Excuse me again Lorenz :( , but I made a big mistake in sending the private message, and so you didn't receive it.

Sorry Zezio.

Lorenz
Patron
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:10 am

Post by Lorenz » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:47 am

That's O.K. then, Zezio. My big concern was just that you got the information on Flakscheinw.Abt. 470 and it proved useful. No need to apologize, but always try to say thanks when people do things for you because then they will be willing to come back and help you again sometime.

As far as I know, there is no published non-German language book that covers the entire history of the German police organization in World War II. The stardard work for this subject is:

Tessin, Georg, Hans-Adolf Neufeldt and Jürgen Huck. Zur Geschichte der Ordnungspolizei 1936-1945. Koblenz: Bundesarchiv, 1956.

Some libraries have this work, but not very many because only a few copies were published. It provides short organizational histories of the hundreds and hundreds of German and German-sponsored Polizei-Bataillonen plus a great deal else.

--Larry

User avatar
derGespenst
Associate
Posts: 776
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:12 am
Location: New York City

Post by derGespenst » Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:14 am

Zezio - it may be unclear what you're really looking for because the term "SS Polizei Batalionen" is generic. The 4th SS "Polizei" Division was composed of (originally) 9 infantry battalions and several supporting battalions, all of which could accurately be called "SS Polizei Batalionen." But I'm not sure if that's what you really want. They were employed as part of the seige troops around Leningrad.

I'm not familiar with an "SS Polizei Infanterie Sturm Batalion" but if such a one existed, and it may have at some point, it sounds likely to have been part of 4th SS Division.

The 13th Polizei Batalion mentioned by Goldhagen is almost certainly not part of 4th SS. For one thing, there's no SS in the designation, for another, the Division's batallions were not numbered in that way and, for another, because of the nature of Goldhagen's book, I'm fairly sure he was referring to something along the lines of an Einsatzgruppe, that is, a unit whose job was to root out partisans (insurgents if you will) and carry out the more unsavory parts of Himmler's pacification program.

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I hope it helps.

zezio73
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:36 am

SS Polizei Btl reply

Post by zezio73 » Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:50 am

To Lorenz

Hi, Lorenz
Thank you a lot for your help, your information are very useful for my research. I'll manage to find the book you've suggested me, and then I've to find someone to translate it into english!!!!
May I ask you further information about Flakschw. Abt. 470(o)?
What does (o) after number 470 mean? And what's the code (L26670) you wrote near 3rd Batterie?
Thank you in advance,it's very kind of you Zezio

To der Gespenst

Hi der Gespenst,
Thank you very much for your help, I made a mistake about 13th Polizei Btl.. You are right, that was a Ordnungpolizei unit employed to mop up the partisans in rear zone, and not a SS unit.

Thank you again Zezio
___________________

"Ubique quo honos et gloria ducunt"

User avatar
Shadow
Patron
Posts: 1437
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:16 am
Location: Shadowland.

Re: SS Polizei Batalionen

Post by Shadow » Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:34 am

zezio73 wrote:Hi, I'm looking for information about SS Polizei Batalionen
Greetings "zezio73" - :D

Have you looked at this thread yet ?? :

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2906

You might find it informative in regards to the Polizei Batalionen.

Hope this is of some help !!

Best regards,
Signed: "The Shadow"

Lorenz
Patron
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:10 am

Post by Lorenz » Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:21 am

For Zezio73

I am glad I was able to help. The "(o)" = "ortsfest" which means it was stationary, fixed, static, permanently emplaced. It was not meant to be transferred (but evidently and surprisingly it was during the last several months of the war). Flak units capable of being loaded up and transferred elsewhere in one day or less had a "(v)" after their number. This means "verlegefähig" = capable of transfer or transferable.

The number "L 26670" is the Battery's Feldpostnummer (Field Postal Number, i.e., the same as a U.S. military APO or FPO). The "L" just means that it was a Luftwaffe unit.

Hope this helps,

--Lorenz

User avatar
Shadow
Patron
Posts: 1437
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:16 am
Location: Shadowland.

Re: SS Polizei Btl reply

Post by Shadow » Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:56 am

zezio73 wrote:To Lorenz

May I ask you further information about Flakschw. Abt. 470(o)?
What does (o) after number 470 mean? And what's the code (L26670) you wrote near 3rd Batterie?
Thank you in advance,it's very kind of you Zezio

___________________

"Ubique quo honos et gloria ducunt"
Hi "zezio73",

Listed under: http://www.ww2.dk/ground/flak/abt/sw470.html

Flakscheinwerfer-Abteilung 470 (o)

Formed 8.43 in München from III./Flak-Regiment 14, with:

Stab/Sw.470 from Stab III./Flak-Regiment 14
1./Sw.470 from 11./Flak-Regiment 14
2./Sw.470 from 12./Flak-Regiment 14
3./Sw.470 from 13./Flak-Regiment 14
4./Sw.470 from 14./Flak-Regiment 14

Service:

1.11.43 in München under 4. Flak-Brigade (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.1.44 in München under 4. Flak-Brigade (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.2.44 in München under 4. Flak-Brigade (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.3.44 in München under 4. Flak-Brigade (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.4.44 in München under 4. Flak-Brigade (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.5.44 in München under 4. Flak-Brigade (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.6.44 in München under 26. Flak-Division (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.7.44 in München under 26. Flak-Division (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.8.44 in München under 26. Flak-Division (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.9.44 in München under 26. Flak-Division (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.10.44 in München under 26. Flak-Division (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.11.44 in München under 26. Flak-Division (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
1.12.44 in München under 26. Flak-Division (Stab/Flakscheinwerfer-Regiment 8)
4.45 in Upper Italy(?)
Signed: "The Shadow"

zezio73
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:36 am

Thank you

Post by zezio73 » Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:49 am

To Lorenz:

Thank you for your further information on Flakschw Abt. 470(o). It has been very helpful for me. You are very kind.

Tanks again Zezio.

To Shadow

Thank you for your help, I've found very useful the site http://www.axistrory.com.

Thank you very much for information on Flakschw Abt. 470(o) too.
Zezio
___________

"Ubique quo honos et gloria ducunt"

User avatar
Shadow
Patron
Posts: 1437
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:16 am
Location: Shadowland.

Re: Thank you

Post by Shadow » Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:01 am

zezio73 wrote: To Shadow

Thank you for your help, I've found very useful the site http://www.axistrory.com.

Thank you very much for information on Flakschw Abt. 470(o) too.
Zezio
___________

"Ubique quo honos et gloria ducunt"
:D My pleasure !!

Best regards,
Signed: "The Shadow"

User avatar
Jason Long
Contributor
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 4:27 pm

SS-Polizei-Infanterie-Sturm-Btl.

Post by Jason Long » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:27 am

Zezio,
It would be helpful if you could describe context of the reference to this mystery unit. I could find nothing on it in Tessin, but that's not necessarily definitive.
The infantry units of the (SS)-Polizei-Division were initally called (SS)-Polizei-Schützen-Regimenter, not being redesignated as SS-Polizei-Infanterie-Regimenter until very late in 1942.
Based on the title I'd be inclined to think that it's a late war unit formed as a quick reaction force for some higher HQ, much like the Heer's Sturm-Btl., since the but I could be entirely incorrect.

The (SS)-Polizei-Batallionen were security troops initially formed from civilian policemen and were only thrown into the front-lines in an emergency. A number were used to assist the Einsatzgruppen in their task of extermination the Jews and "partisans" in the East.

Jason

zezio73
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:36 am

13th SS Polizei Sturm Batalion

Post by zezio73 » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:01 pm

Hi Jason Long,
thank you for your help. In my research on 4th SS Polizei Division, I saw a lot of stuff about it. A friend of mine let me see his collection of German WWII dog tags. One of them was marked:

SS-Pol-Stu-Btl 13.

Since then, I manage to understand if this unit existed and if it was a subordinate unit of 4th SS Polizei Division , but I've found information only on 13th Polizei Batalion on the boook Hitler's willing executioners by D.J. Goldhagen.
Well, is the disc a fake or did this unit exist?
Thank you in advance Zezio

Lorenz
Patron
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:10 am

Post by Lorenz » Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:44 pm

Zezio -

That appears to be SS-Pol.Sturmgeschütz-Btl. 13 (SS-Police Assault Gun Battalion 13). After a careful review of Tessin Bd. 3 and his study of the Ordnungspolizei with Neufeldt and Huck, I could find no listing for a unit with this designation. Based on the best sources available, it appears that it did not exist. If it had existed, it would have belong to SS-Pol.Rgt. 13, but all that had was a small artillery battery (FpN 23947).

Sorry, Zezio, but I think the Erkennungsmarke (dog tag) is a phony.

--Larry

Post Reply